MCL, ACL and their functions in finning and diving?

[Spectre]

Disclaimer: Not intended for use as medical treatment advice

I'm interested in learning what roles the MCL and ACL plan in finning, and in different finning techniques.

First off, I've heard many stories of people that blew an ACL and never had it repaired and had no ill effects on their chosen athletic persuits. Does the ACL play any important role in diving [both in the sense of finning and in the sense of handling the load of scuba gear on land or on a pitching boat].

Obviously the MCL plays a role in finning; at least in frog kicks. What kicks might be more stressful to an MCL injury. What kicks may be beneficial to MCL injury rehabilitation?

If the examples of detremental diving related activities, what would be an estimated recovery time before they are no longer detremental. For beneficial activities, what are estimated recovery times before beneficial activities are helpful?

Likewise questions for meniscus tears as well....

Lastly. if I still have the ears of the doctors in the house; I've heard that MCL tears can heal on their own, but ACL tears can not. Why is that?

Disclaimer: Not intended for use as medical treatment advice

 

[ckharlan66]

Get a scooter and don't worry about it.

J/K

Chad

 

[chickdiver]

Spectre-

The MCL I have no experience with. The ACL, however.... ACL injuries (seem) to have no effect on diving ONCE YOU ARE IN THE WATER. The ACL provides stability to the knee, without it (or with a damaged one) your knee becomes unstable and sort "falls" out from under you if you aren't careful. You can compsensate for this (somewhat) by keeping the knee slightly flexed (bent) all the time. The major problem here is that you runt he risk of falling with gear on (ouch). Some people are able to get along without an ACL (or with a damaged one) if the supporting muscles (primarily quadriceps and also to a lesser extent the hamstrings) are strong enought o help support and stabilize the joint. Otherwise, from my experience and the research I did- surgical intervention is the best option.

 

[pdoege]

I had my ACL rebuilt a few years ago.

The affected leg is still slightly weaker than the other. Nothing to worry about though.

I have to be really careful when I frog kick to not let the lower leg rotate. Hurts like hell when I forget that bit!

Peter Doege

 

[chickdiver]

Hi Peter-

I had the same thing done 2 years ago- but I dont have weakness or pain frog kicking. What type of graft did you have? I had an allograft (cadaver tissue), and I have been diligent about weight training, which, fromt he research I have done, helps a lot witht he residual post surgical issues.

 

[The Iceni]

As the knee carries the body's weight it must be held stable by strong ligaments.

There are four.

Two run across and outside the joint and along the bones to prevent them from sliding sideways on each other. Two very strong internal ligaments prevent the bones from sliding backwards and forwards and one - the anerior cruciate - prevents the lower leg from extending too far. The design is ingenious as the ligaments cross each other within the knee and yet they do not interfere with the joint's mobility. Far from it these ligaments are essential to the knee joint's function.

As boarders know the most important of the two is the anterior cruciate ligament or ACL, which runs from the back of the femur down through the centre of the joint and onto the front (anterior) of the tibia. It limits rotation as well forward motion of the tibia.

The posterior cruciate ligament, is less important (located just behind the ACL running from near the front of the femur to the back of the tibia). The PCL simply limits backward motion of the tibia. Both cruciates become slack as the knee is flexed (or bent) but tighten as the leg is straightened to lock the leg in the straight position.

I am no expert in sports medicine but I do know a ruptured ACL is the more common and more severe injury of the two cruciate ligaments and leaves an unstable knee, which can over-extend or allow the foot to rotate when load bearing, either of which will cause pain or a fall.

I therefore very much doubt this will interfere with finning but, it is clearly unwise to dive with any injury that has not been treated.

A ruptured ACL is now easily repaired.

This is what they look like:- http://www.scoi.com/kneeanat.htm

 

[pdoege]

My ACLs were replaced with cadaver tissue.

I can squat around 250 and I leg press in the 500 region. The muscles are pretty strong.


The rotation motion really makes my knee hurt. One bad kick and I am sore for a few hours. 20 poorly done kicks sets me back for a week.

The solution is to not screw up

I talked to my personal trainer and he said, "Don't do that". I would go back to the doctor, but I am finally enjoying myself, dancing, running, diving, etc. I do not want to go under the knife again.

Peter Doege

 

[Spectre]

Well, I got out in the pool this evening. The good news is flutter is no problem, frog is not much of a problem. Right turning helocopter is something that needed quite a bit of caution, but was possible.

However that's the only good news. The bad news is: Getting my feet back down when too much air got in my legs was a hassle. Not un-doable, but definately not very safe. To coincide with that, the suit squeeze required to keep my trim under control caused a corner of the knee brace to dig into the side of my calf... which now has a good sized knot it in and made it to where I could hardly fin anymore, and walking is now extremely painful.

So while I can fin just fine, I can't actually dive until I get a new brace. I'm pretty sure that without the brace, there would have been finning issues; so that's not an option.

DOAH!

I see the doctor again friday, and I believe surgury is scheduled for the 11th now; so we'll see what he has to say then.

 

[King Kong Matt]

Spectre once bubbled...
Getting my feet back down when too much air got in my legs was a hassle.

Do you have gaiters? That should help solve that problem and relieve you from dealing with those symptoms. I love mine...

Spectre once bubbled...
the suit squeeze required to keep my trim under control caused a corner of the knee brace to dig into the side of my calf...

Explain this one again to me...its late, I just got back from the pool myself and I'm not getting you...why is a certain *level* of suit squeeze required to keep your trim under control? I'm sure I'm just missing something stupid here...

 

[The Iceni]

Spectre once bubbled...
. . . , the suit squeeze required to keep my trim under control caused a corner of the knee brace to dig into the side of my calf... which now has a good sized knot it in and made it to where I could hardly fin anymore, . . . .

Hi Spectre,

I am not sure I am reading this right.

Perhaps adding a very small trim weight (<0.25 Kg) at your CoG will eliminate this problem, since the required additional gas will mean you will no longer need ANY sqeeze when neutrally buoyant. In addition it will be much more comfortable and your suit will be far more flexible, so you can reach those parts others cannot. . .

As I understand it the inherent elasticity in your undersuit will absorb this extra air and prevent it from migrating dangerously, if that is your concern.