Master.........Really?

[jar546]

When I hear any title that begins with "Master" I envision a seasoned veteran of his/her chosen field, educated and experienced.

The difference between a master electrician and a journeyman for example is usually years and thousands of hours of work plus education. Same thing for just about any trade.

I can see the need for different levels of certification in diving but I am starting to question the names they use. If I were to not have any knowledge of diving and someone were to tell me they were a "Master Diver" immediately, I would envision someone with years of diving experience and training, not someone who may have a year or two, or less under his/her belt and a couple of classes or passed a course after they got 50 dives.

This of course is my opinion. It is what I believe John and Jane Q Public think. As I said, the need for different levels is evident but the names really should be more in line with what you really are. Advanced open water diver. But master diver before you are an instructor? Don't think so. This is my perception.

I am starting to think this is more about marketing than anything.

How about AOW Level 1, 2 & 3 instead?

Again, my opinion. I don't think someone with a couple of classes and 50 dives should bear the title of "Master Diver". How about a new name?

 

[spectrum]

Hardly a soul will disagree with you but it's like herding cats. There's no grand pub-ah of certification titles so it is what it is. Most involved divers recognize it for what it is and adjust accordingly. The content of Master Diver does vary widely across agencies.

Pete

 

[iztok]

Again, my opinion. I don't think someone with a couple of classes and 50 dives should bear the title of "Master Diver". How about a new name?

How about some search on the board

This debate has been reheated several dozen times since I joined last year alone

 

[DevonDiver]

It's all a matter of perspective.

From the view of a OW diver, then MSD might represent a high level of attainment. For more experienced divers, it is just another cert card. For a seasoned instructor, tech or cave diver, it might ellicit little more than a wry smile.

In the PADI system, the MSD rating is the pinnacle of non-professional, non-technical diving. That's a fair claim....it is exactly that.

The word 'master' does bring to mind visions of Cousteau etc... But that's a different playing field...and a totally different perspective.

 

[dburg30]

When I hear any title that begins with "Master" I envision a seasoned veteran of his/her chosen field, educated and experienced.

The difference between a master electrician and a journeyman for example is usually years and thousands of hours of work plus education. Same thing for just about any trade.
I can see the need for different levels of certification in diving but I am starting to question the names they use. If I were to not have any knowledge of diving and someone were to tell me they were a "Master Diver" immediately, I would envision someone with years of diving experience and training, not someone who may have a year or two, or less under his/her belt and a couple of classes or passed a course after they got 50 dives.

This of course is my opinion. It is what I believe John and Jane Q Public think. As I said, the need for different levels is evident but the names really should be more in line with what you really are. Advanced open water diver. But master diver before you are an instructor? Don't think so. This is my perception.

I am starting to think this is more about marketing than anything.

How about AOW Level 1, 2 & 3 instead?

Again, my opinion. I don't think someone with a couple of classes and 50 dives should bear the title of "Master Diver". How about a new name?

And here I would've figured that the master / journeyman thing was just put in place by unions to protect their old guard. You could easily have someone who is just a natural that could do the work the 'master' does, but has to still go thru all the cert's and jump thru all the hoops and pay all the money for 'education' when in all reality, they only picked up bits and pieces they didnt already know. And I'm sure there are 'master' electricians that only have the 'c-card' because they did jump thru all the hoops, paid for all the certs 'did the time' and 'demonstrated skills' but still really should'nt even be allowed to change the batteries in the remote..


Yep, 'master' trades and 'master' diver are totally different beasts.. Oh wait..

 

[Garrobo]

I hold the same bias. Master? What? I have held a union jouneyman's card in the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers for 47 years now, have worked in seven different countries, ran some pretty impressive jobs with hundreds of journeymen on my crews only to be titled superintendent for those particular jobs. No master here though. I have run across several travelers whose union card was stamped "master electrician" by their business manager or someone in their local's office. Nothing spectacular about their abilities as far as I was concerned. I guess that they have this designation in their particular locality. If I remember correctly they all came from somewhere in West Virginia. Master Diver is probably a way for a certification agency to pick up some cash just like AOW, which is a big laffer as far as I am concerned.

 

[David_57]

Kind of like some one in the fishing industry who is an expert in baiting hooks I guess that would make him a Master Baiter

 

[Guba]

While I appreciate the thought concerning the "master" term and diving certs, it's interesting to note the analogy to "master" when used in trades. The same term is used in a variety of venues and the same concern always surfaces. I'm in education, and I know many who have their "masters" in their respective field. Most are very proficient, but there are those few who might have the paper, but they are still far less adept at their trade than the vast majority of those who do not hold the title. And yes, we have other "master teacher" programs that aim at elevating educators, yet the same dilemma pops up...they have the title, yet the skills are still lacking.

It even happens in areas such as the martial arts, where the title "master" has for centuries meant that a person has far superior skills and discipline. However, I've had contact with more than a few "masters" with very good technique whose practical skills seemed lacking. (When it came to having someone back me in a fight, I would much rather have had a determined, well-trained Marine than many of those who claimed the master title.)

So it isn't anthing specific to diving. That's why I suggest one not be so quick to be impressed with titles, badges, patches, or diplomas hanging on the wall and be less inclined to label people. Instead, check them out and see if their skills match up with whatever titles to which they may lay claim.

 

[DMDavid]

I am starting to think this is more about marketing than anything.

How about AOW Level 1, 2 & 3 instead?

It was called Open Water I, Open Water II and Advanced Open Water till the mid nineties when for marketing reasons they changed the titles to solicit the egos of divers wanting a grander title without really earning the knowledge or more importantly the experience.

 

[dburg30]

Kinda like the good ole boy that cant add 4+4 and get 9 (that's correct right? ) but give him a car with an issue and the can tear the damn thing apart, fix what's wrong and never even look at a service manual. Then you have your 'master mechanics' that are trained, have PAID for all their pretty certificates, have PAID to keep them up to date and cant "fix" anything. They can swap parts out ok, but that's about all.

ALL training / education is a cash cow for the person / place doing the training.