While I am not the biggest fan of PADI, this is flat out agency bashing. Why would you single out PADI when SDI has the exact same requirements for Master Scuba Diver? 50 dives, specialties and Rescue..
Master Diver - worth getting?
- Thread starter Bert van den Berg
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While I am not the biggest fan of PADI, this is flat out agency bashing. Why would you single out PADI when SDI has the exact same requirements for Master Scuba Diver? 50 dives, specialties and Rescue..
Damselfish
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EricTheDood
Contributor
Almost as hokey as a guy with a sole proprietorship using "CEO" as his job title.
A number of years ago, I did. Knowing what I know now, I would do exactly the same.
The MSD card doesn’t make you a better diver. Accomplishing the steps required to get the card might. Are you a better diver because you have completed the Rescue Diver course? Probably. Are you a better diver at 50 dives, than you were at 4 dives (e.g., immediately after you open water certification)? Probably. Are you a better diver because you pursued additional training (the 5 specialties)? Probably. Is any of that guaranteed? No. One of the specialties I applied toward my MSD card was Dry Suit. After I learned how to dive a drysuit I was a better diver. Becoming comfortable diving a drysuit allowed me to dive more, in somewhat more ‘challenging’ conditions, and that helped me become a better diver. Frankly, I think 100 dives, rather than 50, was – for me – a more significant milestone. I think I began to develop some noticeable confidence right around 100 dives that I didn’t really have before that. But, I have heard others say the same about 50 dives. And, some have said it about 150 dives.
More than a few people are quite cynical about the MSD card. ‘It costs too much, it’s a rip-off.’ Or, ‘It doesn’t mean anything.’ Or, ‘Master Diver’ is not an appropriate term. And, all of those comments are right, for the people that make them. But, they are not necessarily right for you, or anyone else for that matter. The MSD card is very much a personal ‘thing’. It provides some tangible evidence of a diver’s ‘progress’. Perhaps, it allows you to set, and achieve, a tangible goal. For some, that goal may 100 dives, or X number of specialties, or X hours underwater. The specific goal is less important than the existence of A goal of some sort. MSD provides, for some, that kind of goal.
Some shops make the MSD step a special accomplishment. The divers get discounts, maybe some free gear, whatever. PADI supports that concept by making jackets / apparel available to shops, at fair pricing, gear that the shops can give to divers reaching that milestone. In the shop where I grew up as a diver, there were dozens of framed MSD certificates hung on the walls, almost circling the entire shop. It was good marketing for the shop, it was recognition for the divers whose certificates were hung there, it was a win-win proposition. More than a few times I saw customers come in with friends, and point to their MSD certificate on the wall, with not a little pride.
One of the challenges the dive industry faces is retention / longevity of divers. MANY people get certified, but (too) many also stop diving after 1-3 years. There are a number of reasons. But, one of those is that newer divers often do not yet have established networks of dive friends with whom to go diving. One of the advantages of formal training – e.g. the specialties that you complete on the way to MSD - is that it introduces divers to other divers, some of whom may become future dive buddies. It is very easy for us to say here on SB, ‘Just go dive!’ But, that is easier said than done for many newer divers. Am I, as a new and not completely confident OW diver, going to pack up my gear and head for the quarry just in case I might see someone I know, to buddy up with? Probably not. But, maybe the buddy I met in my Rescue class might say, ‘Hey, you want to go to the quarry and practice some skills?’, and that will make the difference.
Programs like MSD offer some divers a tangible goal that keeps them diving, without which they might drift off into other activities. It helped my keep going early. Actually, the competition with my dive buddy, and close friend, to see who got there first, helped me.
I am glad PADI (and other agencies) have programs like MSD. For those divers for whom it is meaningful, it can make a difference. But, the decision regarding whether YOU should do it or not, is very much yours. You will have done the training. You will have logged the dives. Does, the certification / recognition mean enough to you to put in the application, and pay the fee?
I just measured my stack of certification cards. It measures 2 inches. That stack does not contain the 5 specialty cards I need to qualify.
It contains MANY cards allowing me to TEACH specialties, but you don't have to have taken the actual course and earned the specialty in order to teach it. You can get your required knowledge and skills in a number of ways. For example, I am certified to teach the Cavern Diver specialty, for which I had to have cave certification, and mine is through NSS-CDS.
I have taken a lot of courses in my diving career, and I have learned a lot. Once you get into technical diving, the number of cards you get (and have to get, BTW), is amazing. If you open your eyes to the full range of scuba instruction, the possibilities can be overwhelming.
I am writing this post as a companion to and a comparison to my previous post, #35.
You have to understand the evolution of training, the evolution that includes the Master Scuba Diver certification
Back in the mid 1960s, there were precious few scuba agencies, and those agencies generally offered a whopping 2 certification courses: Diver and Instructor. Those few agencies noticed that there was a HUGE dropout rate after divers got certified, and the feeling was that offering the divers exposure to more kinds of diving and more advanced training would help that situation. The first agency to act on this idea was Los Angeles County, which created the Advanced Open Water Diver program, which offered some more advanced training, but mostly offered the students experience dives with a variety of kinds of diving in the hope of sparking their interest. NAUI, which was created by and led by people who had been in the LA county program, followed suit. PADI and the other new agencies followed soon after that.
Before long, the logical extension of that idea--specialty classes--came into existence. That idea offered divers the opportunity to take specific classes on specific topics that they wanted to learn. As an incentive for them to take those classes, the Master Diver program was created. It was based on the Boy Scout model--earn a certain number of merit badges and you get a higher rank.
When the master Diver program was created, there weren't many more than 5 specialty classes in existence. There was no formal cave training. There was no formal technical diver training. A diver who had earned 5 specialties had pretty much exhausted the possibilities of scuba instruction without becoming an instructor.
As I indicated in my last post, we live in a very different world today. In comparison to what is available, someone who has achieved the Master Scuba Diver rating is really just scratching the surface of instructional possibilities. Back then, a Master Scuba Diver was at the top of the heap.
You have to understand the evolution of training, the evolution that includes the Master Scuba Diver certification
Back in the mid 1960s, there were precious few scuba agencies, and those agencies generally offered a whopping 2 certification courses: Diver and Instructor. Those few agencies noticed that there was a HUGE dropout rate after divers got certified, and the feeling was that offering the divers exposure to more kinds of diving and more advanced training would help that situation. The first agency to act on this idea was Los Angeles County, which created the Advanced Open Water Diver program, which offered some more advanced training, but mostly offered the students experience dives with a variety of kinds of diving in the hope of sparking their interest. NAUI, which was created by and led by people who had been in the LA county program, followed suit. PADI and the other new agencies followed soon after that.
Before long, the logical extension of that idea--specialty classes--came into existence. That idea offered divers the opportunity to take specific classes on specific topics that they wanted to learn. As an incentive for them to take those classes, the Master Diver program was created. It was based on the Boy Scout model--earn a certain number of merit badges and you get a higher rank.
When the master Diver program was created, there weren't many more than 5 specialty classes in existence. There was no formal cave training. There was no formal technical diver training. A diver who had earned 5 specialties had pretty much exhausted the possibilities of scuba instruction without becoming an instructor.
As I indicated in my last post, we live in a very different world today. In comparison to what is available, someone who has achieved the Master Scuba Diver rating is really just scratching the surface of instructional possibilities. Back then, a Master Scuba Diver was at the top of the heap.
BTW, I once had a student who definitely benefited from it. He was a scientist who wanted to do some research in very cold lakes in a national park. He asked about it, and he was told he could not so it unless he had the master Scuba Diver rating. He also needed more training, since he had previously only been a typical warm water resort diver before that.
We mapped out a plan for a worthwhile MSD experience. He certainly needed dry suit. The dives would be at high altitude, so we added altitude. He would be dong some challenging navigation, so that was a must. Deep Diver seemed like a good choice. We did two distinctive specialties I teach. One was Advanced Dive Planning, a distinctive specialty that covers more than the DM program in terms of planning and executing dives without supervision. The second was a course very similar to GUE Fundamentals, focusing on buoyancy, trim, and propulsion techniques. He got the specialties and the MSD certification, and the parks service allowed him to do his research.
The experience did more than that for him, though. He is now a certified cave diver, and we did a cave diving trip together in Mexico a couple years ago. He just enrolled in my technical diving instructional program and will be learning about decompression so he can do deeper caves. As a result of his MSD experience, he is a completely different diver than he was before.
We mapped out a plan for a worthwhile MSD experience. He certainly needed dry suit. The dives would be at high altitude, so we added altitude. He would be dong some challenging navigation, so that was a must. Deep Diver seemed like a good choice. We did two distinctive specialties I teach. One was Advanced Dive Planning, a distinctive specialty that covers more than the DM program in terms of planning and executing dives without supervision. The second was a course very similar to GUE Fundamentals, focusing on buoyancy, trim, and propulsion techniques. He got the specialties and the MSD certification, and the parks service allowed him to do his research.
The experience did more than that for him, though. He is now a certified cave diver, and we did a cave diving trip together in Mexico a couple years ago. He just enrolled in my technical diving instructional program and will be learning about decompression so he can do deeper caves. As a result of his MSD experience, he is a completely different diver than he was before.
maj2
Contributor
My LDS has a big plaque on the wall, and when one gets their Master Diver card, your name gets engraved on the plaque. Similar to how Colliam7 mentioned the certificates.
I was close in terms of specialties and was working on my Rescue Diver after a decade of diving. I had done specialties as I needed them for the kinds of diving that I wanted to be doing. I had not planned on bothering with the MSD card. However, my daughter (then 10 years old) was getting her O/W and basically challenged me to get my name up there because she wanted to get her name up there with mine. For her, it was a commitment to achievement and to extending her dive training.
After she was certified in 2013, she did a couple of specialties that she could do when she was still 10, then got her AOW in Bonaire last March and Rescue shortly thereafter, as well as the last couple of specialties. She set herself a goal and she achieved her goal of being a Jr Master Scuba Diver at age 13. I couldn't be prouder of her for setting a goal for herself and achieving that goal. And prouder still that she understands that she still has lots to learn!
Our names are not side by side on the LDS plaque that I mentioned, but she is now up there with me.
Everyone has their own reasons for getting the Master Diver card, or for not getting it. In my opinion, the only wrong reason to get it is any expectation that it should be the end of your own personal improvement as a diver, whether you choose to go pro or not.
I was close in terms of specialties and was working on my Rescue Diver after a decade of diving. I had done specialties as I needed them for the kinds of diving that I wanted to be doing. I had not planned on bothering with the MSD card. However, my daughter (then 10 years old) was getting her O/W and basically challenged me to get my name up there because she wanted to get her name up there with mine. For her, it was a commitment to achievement and to extending her dive training.
After she was certified in 2013, she did a couple of specialties that she could do when she was still 10, then got her AOW in Bonaire last March and Rescue shortly thereafter, as well as the last couple of specialties. She set herself a goal and she achieved her goal of being a Jr Master Scuba Diver at age 13. I couldn't be prouder of her for setting a goal for herself and achieving that goal. And prouder still that she understands that she still has lots to learn!
Our names are not side by side on the LDS plaque that I mentioned, but she is now up there with me.
Everyone has their own reasons for getting the Master Diver card, or for not getting it. In my opinion, the only wrong reason to get it is any expectation that it should be the end of your own personal improvement as a diver, whether you choose to go pro or not.
Mouth Breather
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maj2
Contributor
Glad to! I love to talk about my favourite dive buddy!
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