Mass confusion about computers????

[lowviz]

...//... when your computed NDL goes to 0, you don't know if it'll just make your SS non-optional, or even if it clears completely before you reach SS depth. Because it recalculates on the fly, neither would be exactly unexpected. ...

True.

Yet another layer of complexity. Why do divers 'fly their computers'?

-Because they have no hope of understanding them.

 

[lermontov]

Here’s the thing.

I’m still having a lot of trouble trying to surrender my freedom and become a slave to the screen, especially if it’s a totally bogus OS.
But at the same time I’m not into spending a fortune. But maybe that’s just part of the new times?

I dont understand your reluctance- arent you a slave to any table whether it be written on a plastic card or in a computer-its just a different medium . if you get a DC with lots of configurability surely you can set it to match your own parameters of indulgence - is it just cost your struggling with

 

[tridacna]

True.

Yet another layer of complexity. Why do divers 'fly their computers'?

-Because they have no hope of understanding them.

After 30 years of diving tables, you know when your computer is bullsh1tt1ng you. At least on dives 1, 2 and 3. Day 3 on a liveaboard, not so much.

 

[lowviz]

Yes, can't speak with any authority as to seriously repetitive diving.

Need sleep. Feel free to beat on me while I'm down.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I dont understand your reluctance- arent you a slave to any table whether it be written on a plastic card or in a computer-its just a different medium . if you get a DC with lots of configurability surely you can set it to match your own parameters of indulgence - is it just cost your struggling with

My reluctance is that I don’t want to slowly become another person who just follows what the computer says without a clue as to what it’s based on. To me it’s sort of surrendering your instincts and intelligence to some device that may or may not be giving you something ligit or some hacked down erroneous bullsh_t information.

Just to give you some perspective of where I’m coming from:
I’m primarily in the sign and art business. I’m an old school sign painter. I’m the guy out there with the paint brush and mahl stick you used to see out and about hand lettering.
Almost 99% of the sign business has now entirely gone digital. A machine cuts out all the letters out of vinyl and low payed drones stick it on. Nobody knows anymore how to sketch out designs and how to form letters, they don’t have to, machines do it for them. If the power goes out or one of their computers freezes, takes a dump, a cutter breaks down, whatever, they are screwed. Me, I can always make a living doing what I do manually. I have plenty of work because those same computer sign shops hire me as an independent to hand letter stuff like awnings and walls that none of their “computer geniuses” can do, and I get three times the money.

So to somehow relate this to dive computers:
I know tables and maximum bottom times based on old tried and trued science. There are ongassing and max bottom times based on extensive scientific research that we follow.
I don’t consider following a table being enslaved because the table gives me a maximum allowable bottom time that I use as a reference point. From there it’s up to me to design a dive profile that stays within that maximum allowable exposure.
That is the “freedom” I’m talking about.
My fear, just like if I was to buy a computer, plotter, and sign softwear, is that I’m going to lose my manual hands on intelligence and become reliant on electronics and become mentally atrophied.

This is something I see as a real problem with computers and diving in this day and age when I hear people say “you need to just trust your computer”. Trust what?
What is in the guts of this thing I’m supposed to just trust now?

I’m thinking more and more how this is going to go, just based on everything I’m gathering, is that I’ll probably end up buying a brand new Perdix. I just don't see any way around it in order to get what I want and still have some control over my profiles.

I’ll give my new diver buddy the Mares so he has something to use to start out with. Better than nothing. They didn’t teach him tables.

 

[MargaritaMike]

@Shearwater

Bruce, any chance you can send Eric a demo model for evaluation? An old Petrel, anything...

I resent you posting this publicly. What about the 100's of divers on here who aren't in your "club". Don't THEY get a demo model to evaluate prior to purchase? If you want to suggest such a thing, you should do so privately. That's what PM's are for.

VERY SINCERELY

 

[lowviz]

I resent you posting this publicly. What about the 100's of divers on here who aren't in your "club". ...//...

No club, community. I count for exactly one, so do you. I'll acknowledge the the reason for your resentment.

Doesn't really bother me in this day and age of everyone taking personal offense at damn near everything, but I will attempt to be more aware before I post.

A little give and take here...

 

[lermontov]

I’m thinking more and more how this is going to go, just based on everything I’m gathering, is that I’ll probably end up buying a brand new Perdix. I just don't see any way around it in order to get what I want and still have some control over my profiles.

I get it- I really do, but theyre not exclusive pieces of information -theyre related and cutting your early diving on tables based experience is a great foundation to then have an overlay of technology such as a DC placed over it and a perdix is the perfect tool for you.
They have a myriad of options to personalise it right down to determine what you have on your screen. But lets face it unless your doing a pretty clean square profile I cant see how DC isnt a bonus if you want to max bottom time and NDL diving

 

[BoltSnap]

left with the scubapro instead

Which one did you buy?

 

[BoltSnap]

Here’s the thing.
I’ve been diving tables including Navy tables and variants for years.
I’m not completely ignorant when it comes to deco, bottom times, repetitive dives, SI, pressure groups, etc.
What I DO NOT WANT is to be diving along looking at time and depth then suddenly realize that some stupid computer algorithm is freaking out when I know based on what I know, I still have plenty of time and in no danger of violating rec profiles.
Other people including buddies have all switched to computers so I’m figuring it’s probably time for me to get with the times. My fear is that I’ll br using some cheap computer with a goofy algorithm and screw up my buddies dive or bench myself, or get srewed out of precious UW time.
I don’t want to be doing deco for overstaying some rediculously conservative bottom time when that time could be spent enjoying the dive.
I’m still having a lot of trouble trying to surrender my freedom and become a slave to the screen, especially if it’s a totally bogus OS.
But at the same time I’m not into spending a fortune. But maybe that’s just part of the new times?

Perhaps an Oceanic computer with dual algorithms to allow you to adjust your computer to come very close to your buddies' computers' NDL's?