Mask strap question....

[TSandM]

Mike, here's the answer to your problem. (Sorry, can't figure out how to get the image to display here.)

I have one of these (except mine says Dive Xtras) and they're ideal -- neoprene, unbreakable, and much more secure than the Halcyon strap with the Velcro.

 

[FireInMyBones]

I basically was trying to describe that. It is like the one I made .

 

[Scott L]

Mike, here's the answer to your problem. (Sorry, can't figure out how to get the image to display here.)

I have one of these (except mine says Dive Xtras) and they're ideal -- neoprene, unbreakable, and much more secure than the Halcyon strap with the Velcro.

That's what I have and it functions great ...

 

[Trace Malinowski]

Rubber breaks. Velcro wears out. Both straps need to be inspected and replaced, but it is easier to determine when to do that with a velcro strap.

The real DIR benefit to the velcro straps comes from the fact that DIR originated as a cave diving philosophy. All cavern and cave diving instructors from every agency usually require students to either tape the loose ends of a mask strap or replace their mask straps with a velcro strap to create a smooth mask profile. If a diver is in close proximity to a line, either by need in tight spaces, by poor line awareness, or in a zero visibility situation such as a silt-out, removing the chance that a mask strap can catch on a line reduces the chances for a lost mask or line damage.

The added benefit of a velcro strap is that it is easily adjustable to fit almost any diver. While some divers will cut the straps of their primary masks to fit. Back-up velcro mask straps should be left "as is" so that any teammate's head that can fit into such a strap may be accommodated.

The fact that velcro straps are often more comfortable and said to be longer lasting makes them a more "robust" choice as that is often a favorite term in GUE and Halcyon marketing. The real benefits to recreational and technical divers are related to the above.

The velcro strap needs to be a true velcro strap and not just a velcro pad. The pad may not properly cover and secure the loose ends of a mask for cave or wreck penetration diving and these ends may still need to be taped despite the pad. Rather than use a pad over a strap, you are better off replacing it with the proper velcro strap.

The strap on the Oceanic Shadow (my cave diving mask) and the UTD strap of which Lynne posted an image, while strong and easily adjustable, fails the equipment recommendation by the cave community for secured loose ends and the plastic buckles are among the worst buckles on any mask when it comes to their ability to trap line - especially if the diver backs into it. These need to be taped if you wish your mask to meet the standards for a safe penetration mask.

The Halcyon velcro strap with the straps attaching underneath the pad is the best choice for technical diving. Divers may thumb their noses at this and point out that the chances are small that you would snag a line with other mask straps, but since the cave community has had this standard of care for decades, meeting that standard cannot hurt and is easily accomplished.

 

[idocsteve]

On the GUE site they have this neoprene cover for sale, is this a slap strap or just the cover? I cannot really tell from the picture?

It's a cover, as stated by another poster. To expand a bit-

You remove the strap from one side of the mask and thread the entire strap inside the neoprene slip on cover. The doubled mask strap does tend to bunch up a bit but it works well for those who don't like the strap getting all caught up in their hair.

And they add color and style, I bet you can even get custom straps that say anything from "If you can read this you're diving too close" or "Is that a Spare Air in your pocket or are you happy to see me".

 

[TSandM]

That's interesting, Trace. I've taken four cave classes now with my Dive X-tras strap, and not even Danny, who is meticulous about equipment, said one word about it.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

That's interesting, Trace. I've taken four cave classes now with my Dive X-tras strap, and not even Danny, who is meticulous about equipment, said one word about it.

Do you have the NSS-CDS Cavern Diving Manual by Zumrick, Prosser and Grey? Page 23. Or, the NSS Cave Diving Manual: An Overview edited by Prosser and Grey? Page 30.

I admit that the chance of such an entanglement is small, and because of that, many divers scoff it off. Since the velcro straps came out, most divers who would attend to this detail in the past have switched to velcro so you don't see many taped masks anymore, except in cavern and intro courses, done by those students who didn't know and who used standard mask straps with loose ends.

For a cave instructor, it is a good teaching tool because it makes the student aware of the seriousness of the activity and the fact that we expect them to be meticulous about everything from the moment they begin to streamline their equipment.

We could start a whole thread on this in I2I if we wanted, but when no one had mentioned the meat and potatoes of cave diving strap considerations in this thread, I thought I would. My post wasn't intended to criticize you. I thought it would be helpful to the community to understand the Utopian view of mask strap discipline from a cave diver's perspective. That perspective can then be a tool by which we measure the merit of various straps as applicable to DIR - since the root of the discipline is cave exploration of the Wakulla Karst.

 

[Scott L]

Rubber breaks. Velcro wears out. Both straps need to be inspected and replaced, but it is easier to determine when to do that with a velcro strap.

The real DIR benefit to the velcro straps comes from the fact that DIR originated as a cave diving philosophy. All cavern and cave diving instructors from every agency usually require students to either tape the loose ends of a mask strap or replace their mask straps with a velcro strap to create a smooth mask profile. If a diver is in close proximity to a line, either by need in tight spaces, by poor line awareness, or in a zero visibility situation such as a silt-out, removing the chance that a mask strap can catch on a line reduces the chances for a lost mask or line damage.

The added benefit of a velcro strap is that it is easily adjustable to fit almost any diver. While some divers will cut the straps of their primary masks to fit. Back-up mask straps should be left "as is" so that any teammate's head that can fit into such a strap may be accommodated.

The fact that velcro straps are often more comfortable and said to be longer lasting makes them a more "robust" choice as that is often a favorite term in GUE and Halcyon marketing. The real benefits to recreational and technical divers are related to the above.

The velcro strap needs to be a true velcro strap and not just a velcro pad. The pad may not properly cover and secure the loose ends of a mask for cave or wreck penetration diving and these ends may still need to be taped despite the pad. Rather than use a pad over a strap, you are better off replacing it with the proper velcro strap.

The strap on the Oceanic Shadow (my cave diving mask) and the UTD strap of which Lynne posted an image, while strong and easily adjustable, fails the equipment recommendation by the cave community for secured loose ends and the plastic buckles are among the worst buckles on any mask when it comes to their ability to trap line - especially if the diver backs into it. These need to be taped if you wish your mask to meet the standards for a safe penetration mask.

The Halcyon velcro strap with the straps attaching underneath the pad is the best choice for technical diving. Divers may thumb their noses at this and point out that the chances are small that you would snag a line with other mask straps, but since the cave community has had this standard of care for decades, meeting that standard cannot hurt and is easily accomplished.

A flooding mask is not DIR either. In addition, who would have a problem untangling a line caught on their mask should that event were ever to occur? Just friendly discussion.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

A flooding mask is not DIR either. In addition, who would have a problem untangling a line caught on their mask should that event were ever to occur? Just friendly discussion.

For the same reason that cave divers either tape their fin straps, thread them so the ends are on the inside, or replace them with intelligently designed spring straps - not those springs that can create an entanglement.

In DIR diving, you always have a team. You could simply stop kicking if you got into the line and a teammate could free you. But, we want to reduce the chance or entanglement, trapping, or breaking a line. We have four entanglement points at the fin straps and two on the mask. Attention to these points reduces the likelihood of these points causing problems during a dive.

Passing through tight restrictions in close proximity to the guideline, especially in poor or zero vis, gives us enough to worry about without helping the environment teach us hard lessons. As DIR is sold more and more to the recreational community, and as DIR philosophy-compliant companies manufacture equipment to make such diving more user-friendly, I think it is nice for these DIR divers to know that streamlining is also an important consideration of things like mask and fin straps and not just comfort and durability.

 

[Scott L]

For the same reason that cave divers either tape their fin straps, thread them so the ends are on the inside, or replace them with intelligently designed spring straps - not those springs that can create an entanglement.

In DIR diving, you always have a team. You could simply stop kicking if you got into the line and a teammate could free you. But, we want to reduce the chance or entanglement, trapping, or breaking a line. We have four entanglement points at the fin straps and two on the mask. Attention to these points reduces the likelihood of these points causing problems during a dive.

Passing through tight restrictions in close proximity to the guideline, especially in poor or zero vis, gives us enough to worry about without helping the environment teach us hard lessons. As DIR is sold more and more to the recreational community, and as DIR philosophy-compliant companies manufacture equipment to make such diving more user-friendly, I think it is nice for these DIR divers to know that streamlining is also an important consideration of things like mask and fin straps and not just comfort and durability.

Fair enough. The plastic buckle is rather lacking on those straps I have to admit. I might look for a lower profile alternative then tape as you suggest. Interesting enough, a GUE Tech 2 instructor sold me mine....