CentralTxDiver
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uspap:
I've learned through actual experience that MOF equals lost mask and snorkel.
Jim
Mask on forehead = diver in distress?
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I've learned through actual experience that MOF equals lost mask and snorkel.
Jim
Never lost a mask from my forehead--ever--take the snorkel off of it and stick it in your belt. The PadI Poodle Diver cert is just a introduction to learning, not an end all. Just because they made you wear a snorkel, now that your an adult you can choose for yourself where and when to use a snorkel or how to place your mask.
I have to say this MOF and NMOF and MOBH stuff is ridiculous. Let people alone and let them do as they wish, if I loose my mask I got another in the bag and lot's of money to buy another. Once your beyond a few first dives I would think the average person of reasonable intelligence might be able to figure out where and what to do with and place their masks depending on the circumstances of the moment.
Guess who lost their mask in the pic above. Let's say, it was not me. Guess who did not have an extra mask, again, it was not me. Guess who loaned their buddy their extra mask--yep--that would be me. N
I have to say this MOF and NMOF and MOBH stuff is ridiculous. Let people alone and let them do as they wish, if I loose my mask I got another in the bag and lot's of money to buy another. Once your beyond a few first dives I would think the average person of reasonable intelligence might be able to figure out where and what to do with and place their masks depending on the circumstances of the moment.
Guess who lost their mask in the pic above. Let's say, it was not me. Guess who did not have an extra mask, again, it was not me. Guess who loaned their buddy their extra mask--yep--that would be me. N
TxHockeyGuy
Contributor
I have only witnessed one rescue so far so keep that in mind. During my second OW training dive at a local quarry I noticed a student that had done a giant stride off the dock while her instructors and class were at least 20 yards away. I could tell she was having some problems but nothing that looked very serious. The very next thing I saw her do was put her mask on her forehead and then slip under the surface very quietly. If you had not been looking directly at her when it happened you would never have known. Fortunately one of my instructors was still back at the dock and had been keeping an eye on her when she went under. He performed a successful, and very impressive IMHO, rescue. She was spitting up a lot of water but otherwise appeared no worse for the experience. They did put her on oxygen and had her checked out by EMT's but from what I heard she made it through just fine, no idea if she ever went diving again though.
A few other notes about this. The girl in this story couldn't have been more than 13 years old. The class she was in consisted of about 10 students all of which appeared to be younger than 15 and there were only 2 instructors for the class. I also understand that she was severely overweighted and her LP inflater hose was not connected. I wish I could have heard the tongue lashing that apparently both of those instructors received but that was done out of earshot of students. I will say we all took our training class much more seriously after that.
A few other notes about this. The girl in this story couldn't have been more than 13 years old. The class she was in consisted of about 10 students all of which appeared to be younger than 15 and there were only 2 instructors for the class. I also understand that she was severely overweighted and her LP inflater hose was not connected. I wish I could have heard the tongue lashing that apparently both of those instructors received but that was done out of earshot of students. I will say we all took our training class much more seriously after that.
lamont
Contributor
I've done one assist of a diver on the surface that was working himself into a panic and he had his mask around his neck. It was the shouting of "I can't breathe, help!" and the flailing around of his arms which clued me in to the distressed diver situation.
I use a long hose, so I have a bungee necklace on my backup reg. That means if I put the mask down there it restricts access to one of my breathing regulators. I've actually noticed before (on a shore dive) that my OPV was stuck open as I was walking down to the waterline -- that incident made me reconsider a few things about my gear, which was that the mask does not go around the neck and obstruct the bungee'd regulator, and that I always inflate my wing enough to check that the OPV is holding pressure (using my elbows to press back on my wing) before entering the water.
So, I will not do the mask-around-neck thing. I could do the mask around back of head thing, but it offers no benefits in not losing the mask (and I have a big head, the mask is not going to easily come off it). I also mitigate mask loss issues by having a backup mask in my pocket and a backup backup mask in my save-a-dive kit. In any kind of heavier surface conditions I'll just keep my mask over my eyes so that I can see when the waves go over my head. I've never lost a mask yet. I expect that if I do lose a mask it'll most likely be when I take my hood off and accidentally launch it off a boat because I forgot it was up there -- but that's okay, I've had my eyes on some other masks I'd like to try out, but I can't really justify the purchase when I've got three equally good masks that I can use right now...
So:
- obstructs the backup reg when around neck
- not actually a sign of panic
- mask loss not an issue (for me anyway)
- have backup masks if I do lose one
I use a long hose, so I have a bungee necklace on my backup reg. That means if I put the mask down there it restricts access to one of my breathing regulators. I've actually noticed before (on a shore dive) that my OPV was stuck open as I was walking down to the waterline -- that incident made me reconsider a few things about my gear, which was that the mask does not go around the neck and obstruct the bungee'd regulator, and that I always inflate my wing enough to check that the OPV is holding pressure (using my elbows to press back on my wing) before entering the water.
So, I will not do the mask-around-neck thing. I could do the mask around back of head thing, but it offers no benefits in not losing the mask (and I have a big head, the mask is not going to easily come off it). I also mitigate mask loss issues by having a backup mask in my pocket and a backup backup mask in my save-a-dive kit. In any kind of heavier surface conditions I'll just keep my mask over my eyes so that I can see when the waves go over my head. I've never lost a mask yet. I expect that if I do lose a mask it'll most likely be when I take my hood off and accidentally launch it off a boat because I forgot it was up there -- but that's okay, I've had my eyes on some other masks I'd like to try out, but I can't really justify the purchase when I've got three equally good masks that I can use right now...
So:
- obstructs the backup reg when around neck
- not actually a sign of panic
- mask loss not an issue (for me anyway)
- have backup masks if I do lose one
Bob3
Contributor
So... where does that put someone with no mask at all?
Bob, it is clear from the body language of the no mask fellow above pictured that he was not wearing his mask correctly on the forehead and now is maskless--he was warned not to listen to PadI poodle instructors by his MOF buddy and see what happened!
It is even on TV-----!!!
Apply mask Directly to the Forehead, Apply Directly to the Forehead, Apply Directly to the Forehead!
N
It is even on TV-----!!!
Apply mask Directly to the Forehead, Apply Directly to the Forehead, Apply Directly to the Forehead!
N
MOF? For me its a sign I don't like things around my neck...
Like some on here I'm coming back to diving after a long... long... layoff but the whole MOF thing is still striking me like a "good idea" that hasn't quite reached the maturation stage yet... ain't that *diplomatic* soundin;???
I belive that:
1: MOF *may* indicate something is wrong but is far from definative.
2: MOF *may* lead to PDST (Premature Dive Sequence Termination) or may not.
3: MOF *may* indicate a situation where the diver is not thinking...
a: because they have stress issues and are responding reflexively
b: because they are totally relaxed and are responding reflexively
4: MOF is a great way to meet people because there's always somebody who elects
to holler at an obviously relaxed diver with MOF with, "HEY... are you in DISTRESS?"
5: If I'm a participant in a PADI lead (or any other DM lead) dive and they tell me,
"MOF = Distress Signal"... I'll play nice because they're the DM and its their
ball and bat... if it's just me and my buddy I may not adopt the 'rule' and I feel
reasonably sure neither NASDS/SSI or PADI is gonna' hunt me down and pull my
cert card.
6: Cooperative effort and common sense probably are more valuable than anything
in ensuring a *safe* dive environment... which is what I think we're all after.
Now... that being said...
When I began diving it was standard practice to get together with your dive buddies before entering the water and go over the various signals we would use... although we tended to use some rather conventional signals... we didn't trust to some unenforceable 'rule'... we dove the conventions of the dive as planned before the dive... and our 'signals' might change depending on the dive we were doing. To me this was always more valuable than *assuming* we were all playing off the same deck.
Let's look at the flip side of the equation... how many would RECOGNIZE (without flailing arms, screams for assistance, gurgling noises or other supportive documentation) and immediately assume that the mask on face as a *distress* signal?
I'm not sure I would...
In my opinon, there is a clear distinction between a *sign of distress* and a *distress signal*. While I agree that MOF may be a *sign of distress* in certain situations... it makes a very poor *distress signal*. If one wanted to come up with a functional *distress signal* one should make it clear and distinguishable from common reflexive behavior...
J.R.
Like some on here I'm coming back to diving after a long... long... layoff but the whole MOF thing is still striking me like a "good idea" that hasn't quite reached the maturation stage yet... ain't that *diplomatic* soundin;???
I belive that:
1: MOF *may* indicate something is wrong but is far from definative.
2: MOF *may* lead to PDST (Premature Dive Sequence Termination) or may not.
3: MOF *may* indicate a situation where the diver is not thinking...
a: because they have stress issues and are responding reflexively
b: because they are totally relaxed and are responding reflexively
4: MOF is a great way to meet people because there's always somebody who elects
to holler at an obviously relaxed diver with MOF with, "HEY... are you in DISTRESS?"
5: If I'm a participant in a PADI lead (or any other DM lead) dive and they tell me,
"MOF = Distress Signal"... I'll play nice because they're the DM and its their
ball and bat... if it's just me and my buddy I may not adopt the 'rule' and I feel
reasonably sure neither NASDS/SSI or PADI is gonna' hunt me down and pull my
cert card.
6: Cooperative effort and common sense probably are more valuable than anything
in ensuring a *safe* dive environment... which is what I think we're all after.
Now... that being said...
When I began diving it was standard practice to get together with your dive buddies before entering the water and go over the various signals we would use... although we tended to use some rather conventional signals... we didn't trust to some unenforceable 'rule'... we dove the conventions of the dive as planned before the dive... and our 'signals' might change depending on the dive we were doing. To me this was always more valuable than *assuming* we were all playing off the same deck.
Let's look at the flip side of the equation... how many would RECOGNIZE (without flailing arms, screams for assistance, gurgling noises or other supportive documentation) and immediately assume that the mask on face as a *distress* signal?
I'm not sure I would...
In my opinon, there is a clear distinction between a *sign of distress* and a *distress signal*. While I agree that MOF may be a *sign of distress* in certain situations... it makes a very poor *distress signal*. If one wanted to come up with a functional *distress signal* one should make it clear and distinguishable from common reflexive behavior...
J.R.
all4scuba05
Contributor
and that's that...
Nemrod,
The responses in this thread are to a direct question. Who is it you feel should be leaft alone? I'm also not aware of a Poodle cert. Cool you have lot's of money. Not everyone is as blessed. I have 2 masks also and a descent amount of cash. I hate losing stuff though. I agree with you that, based on conditions you can pretty well determine where your mask goes. However, a fellow diver asked our opinion. If this topic irritates you don't click on it.
The responses in this thread are to a direct question. Who is it you feel should be leaft alone? I'm also not aware of a Poodle cert. Cool you have lot's of money. Not everyone is as blessed. I have 2 masks also and a descent amount of cash. I hate losing stuff though. I agree with you that, based on conditions you can pretty well determine where your mask goes. However, a fellow diver asked our opinion. If this topic irritates you don't click on it.
I've lead dives for a living since '99. At one point I lead night dives 3 times a week for an extended period, often with divers who hadn't been in the water for a year or more. I've seen a LOT of divers in mild distress. None have ever spashed and waved their arms around. 2 have Screamed. Most of them have put their masks on their foreheads the moment they get stressed out, next comes the hyperventilation... I do my darnedest not to let it get that far, certainly no further.
The big thing about rescues, at least the smart thing to do, is to prevent them from getting to the point they are full out panic situations. The agencies teach that mask on forehead is a sign of distress... it is, despite of what some here say. Distress doesn't necessarily mean a full out panic attack in need of an immediate full out rescue effort... the trick is to nip it in the bud - before - it gets to that point. Then it's usally just a matter of getting them buoyant and talking them down, not a high risk situation.
The big thing about rescues, at least the smart thing to do, is to prevent them from getting to the point they are full out panic situations. The agencies teach that mask on forehead is a sign of distress... it is, despite of what some here say. Distress doesn't necessarily mean a full out panic attack in need of an immediate full out rescue effort... the trick is to nip it in the bud - before - it gets to that point. Then it's usally just a matter of getting them buoyant and talking them down, not a high risk situation.
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