Martial Arts Training?

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sillygrendel

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Location
Mountain View, CA
# of dives
100 - 199
One of my christmas presents this year was for 3 months of martial arts lessons. I've always been interested in doing it, but have never quite gone through with it... (usually because if I had the time/money I'd been climbing instead :D )

I have not yet chosen a particular discipline or training establishment yet... And to tell the truth, I'm not quite sure how to go about it.

There has been a lot of discussion lately about the poor quality of dive training and how students are always asking the wong questions of their potential instructors.

Anyone have any idea of what questions I should be asking? What I should be looking for? Differences in the different disciplines? Or maybe some good resources for me to start looking at?

Any help would be appreciated,
Matt
 
I'm not sure what the schools are like in your area.

I don't think I've ever encountered a martial arts instructor who had any sort of formal education in physiology or health.

They tend to be nice, earnest ladies and gentlemen who have spent about 10 years learning their style. So they tend to not really know the correct way to exercise, stretch, etc. This leads to injuries.

I'd be tempted to just find a licensed personal trainer.

That being said, you can choose between a budo style and a gentler style. The budo styles will teach you how to fight, the others will teach you how to look like a martial artist.

I understand that various forms of wrestling are now the big thing.

I spent many years training in kyokushinkai.

Peter Doege
 
My thoughts on this.....

Watch a lesson being taught if you can, it's more useful IMO than participating in a "free lesson". Even knowing nothing about martial arts you should be able to get a feel for the quality of the teaching taking place.

As for choice of discipline it basically depends on what you want to get out of it and where your located.

Martial arts instruction is one of those things where a dirt cheap community program CAN be as good or better than an expensive private program. Just like scuba quality is largely dependant on the instructor.
 
sillygrendel once bubbled...
One of my christmas presents this year was for 3 months of martial arts lessons. I've always been interested in doing it, but have never quite gone through with it... (usually because if I had the time/money I'd been climbing instead :D )

I have not yet chosen a particular discipline or training establishment yet... And to tell the truth, I'm not quite sure how to go about it.

There has been a lot of discussion lately about the poor quality of dive training and how students are always asking the wong questions of their potential instructors.

Anyone have any idea of what questions I should be asking? What I should be looking for? Differences in the different disciplines? Or maybe some good resources for me to start looking at?

Any help would be appreciated,
Matt
Tough question...but I like what pdoege says in his post about choosing a style first. I would do some research online and see what you are looking for and then go from there. Basically, when I was looking around, I found the same two types of martial arts - fighting and non-fighting. It boils down to why you are doing it...are you doing it to learn self-defense techniques that you may need to rely on in a real-world situation or are you doing it to learn a martial art/philosophy mind/body type thing. The stuff runs the whole scale from Tae-Bo (just exercise) to the more serious weapons stuff (escrima, kali, ninjitsu, etc.). Regardless, they will all get you into shape.. For more on the "real deal", check these guys out: http://www.dogbrothers.com/ .

When the smoke settled I had decided that I was more interested in learning how to fight and defend myself than I was in practicing forms (katas) over and over again. Give us an idea of what you are looking for and maybe we can help narrow it down. Here's a link that can fill you in on some different styles...just click on the style for a brief description.

http://www.fightauthority.com/index.php4?typeID=1
 
If I were to do it, I would like to learn to fight. I'm also interested in using it for flexibility gains, however. I find body positioning interesting in itself, but when it comes to something like this I think practicality would take precedent.
 
First off, it's not entirely like scuba, in that with scuba; you get your lessons, and then your on your own. With martial arts, you're with the instructors for the whole thing [basically]. With that said, you can figure out as you move along if the instructor is the right one for you.

Many different instructors have many different styles and philosophies. For example, one instructor I had was very into the history and philosophy, so we did a lot with the history of the art, the meaning of different types of weapons, etc... That instructor was also exceedingly strict. Knuckle pushups were handed out daily for minor offenses. Major offenses were delt with in other ways [for example; there was an 'almost black belt' who was sparring with the head instructor. She demonstrated a lack of control with her strikes [no contact sparring]. He warned her 3 times to pay attention to control. The 4th time wasn't a warning, he sent her across the room with a kick...

Another school I trained at was much more lax in discipline, but had benefits in other areas.

It all depends on what sort of thing you want. But remember, any martial arts training takes a while if you decide to set goals like 'black belt'. You're talking a 2 or 3 year commitment at least if you want to go that route.

Definately go to a few classes and observe. Ask what the average time to reach black belt is [it's a loaded question and should actually be answered with questions and not something like "2 years; but 1 1/2 if you spend XXX". Beware of places that have different colored uniforms for different belt rankings; There is no pure style that requires that; it's a money making ploy. This doesn't mean it's a bad thing; for example one school I trained at had implemented such a thing, because without it he was going to go out of business.

Watch the classes, and watch the ranks. Do the green belts look good, or are they sloppy. Are the blue belts impressive. Do the brown [or red] belts blow your mind? If the blue belts are stumbling around and can't do multiple combinations in sparring... then they got there too fast; in which case the school is more interested in taking your money than training you. Ask how long between belt tests, and ask what sort of requirements exist for belt tests. You will find some schools that will test you for a belt every 3 months. You'll also find schools that will test you for a belt every month... but only if your ready. It could be 5 or 6 months before you're recommended for a belt test.

Both schools I trained at had scheduled tests every 3 months, most people would be qualified for the next belt after 3 months, but occasionally someone would be asked to pass over for the next three months. 10 levels = 30 months = 2.5 years to black belt [minimum].

Another question to ask is about junior [under 16] blackbelts. Is it an official blackbelt, or is it a junior blackbelt. Both schools I trained at had junior level belts. They held their belts and grades until they turned 16, where they had to re-test for all their degrees with adult standards. I've also seen schools that don't allow students to get a blackbelt until they turn 16.

But remember... after 3 months at one place, you can always [if you decide to continue] go somewhere else if you don't feel it's the right _fit_ for you.

-----------

Next comes styles. The first question is 'hard or soft'. Hard styles [Tae Kwon Do, Shotokan, Karate] are more violent in nature. They are something you do in the school for exercise and the art. They serve near to no real world applications. Soft styles [Judo, Aikido] are more throws and holds. They actually can serve some real world applications, and therefore are used for 'self defense' as well. The basic jist of this is: If an attacker, comes at you, are you trained to get away, or are you trained to kill the guy. However some schools will mix soft styles into a hard style. One of the schools I trained at [I trained Tae Kwon Do] had an instructor who also had a blackbelt in Closed Circle Jujisu. So with every belt grade, we had different jujisu requirements as well. So while we were training a hard style, we still got some practical applications.

Many multi-style blackbelts received their first two blackbelts in one of each a soft and a hard style.
-----

Oh. One other point. Unlike scuba; where you choose the instructor not the agency; Martial arts you choose the style and the school. All blackbelts take a part in the instruction, and therefore you will be tought by many of them. What you care about is the requirements and the attitude of the school, not the individual instructors as much. There will be an owner/head, who will be the highest ranked in the school. What's his rank? There is [generally] 10 degrees of blackbelts. If your school is run by a second degree, and has only first degree blackbelts under their wing, that says a lot compared to a school with a 5th degree blackbelt, with multiple second and 3rd degree blackbelts active in the school. Some schools are small chains. So while one school I trained at had 3rd degree blackbelts running the place, they were still connected with the chain of schools, and all belt tests were done in Connecticut, under the watchful eye of the 8th degree blackbelt who's name was on the door! This association with such a high ranking Master also made it so the instructors in the individual schools weren't 'done' with their training, they were training for their higher degrees as well...

---------

So now that you have _way_ to much information... throw that all in the back of your mind and start with:

1) What is available in my area?
2) Do I want to do a hard style, or a soft style?

And if you don't know #2 right off the bat, start watching classes and see what you like.

[BTW: Steven Segal - Aikido (soft). Jeff Speakman - Kempo (hard); Jean Claud Van Damme - Karate? (hard).]
 
sillygrendel once bubbled...
If I were to do it, I would like to learn to fight. I'm also interested in using it for flexibility gains, however. I find body positioning interesting in itself, but when it comes to something like this I think practicality would take precedent.

To fight, or to defend yourself? It's a _big_ difference. When I think of 'fight' I think of a hard style. But the practicality of the matter is what you are learning you're not gonna be able to use, 'cause once you're proficent enough to be able to use it in a controlled manner, you're proficent enough to get yourself into trouble.

There are many stories of muggers ending up in the hospital or coroner, and the 'victim' loosing in court for 'excessive use of force' or even 'assault with a deadly weapon', citing that their training has redefined their hands and feet as deadly weapons.

Of course there is many different levels in the different styles. For example, Okinawan styles [like Shotokan] tend to be really really hard... to the point that all the open tournaments that were going on when I was training always were won by a shotokan guy... and that's providing no shoko rougi guys showed up [I'm not sure I'm spelling those styles correctly].

off-topic
If anyone is curious, I've always thought Capoeira was the coolest style. Rent "The Mighty Quinn" with Denzel Washington, and then see if you can find "Only the Strong". Cool stuff :)
 
Spectre -- Thanks for the detailed response.

1. I need to take a look at the phone book and start making some calls.

2. I would say hard. Practical aspects of soft would be helpful as well I think.
 
sillygrendel once bubbled...
2. I would say hard. Practical aspects of soft would be helpful as well I think.

I have always, and will always, feel that a hard style is cooler [it's all flashy and stuff]. Since a lot of schools use 'self defense' as a selling tool, you may find a lot doing the sort of thing that my one school used to do [with the closed-circle jujisu]. If they train a hard style, just ask them if they do any self-defense training. You may find multi style schools as well.

Then of course you can go _really_ cool, and go with Kendo. You can't get much cooler than dressing up in armor and beating the crud out of each other with bamboo swords :whack: ... [well, ninjisu could possibly be cooler than that :)]

:samuria:
 
I largely agree with what Spectre has to say.

I personally believe that there is a fairly major distinction between learning to "fight" and learning to "defend yourself". The former encompasses understanding ranges and how certain attacks restrict following attacks, understanding when a target is open, fighting is about an exchange. Self defense is about reactng to a situation and really doesn't involve any sort of exchange. You need to be clear on what your goals are.

Martial arts that teach "fighting" can again be split into two major categories, those that teach street type skills (say eskrima) and those that are a sport. Kendo for example is largely about spa'ing (fighting), but what you learn in class will be of little direct value outside of class.

My personal attraction to martial arts comes from my love of spa'ing. The self defense aspect is of minor (at best) interest to me. I stay in shape to do martial arts, I don't do martial arts to get in shape.

Also bear in mind that your not going to be able to select from every available style, just what's taught well in your area.
 

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