Marketing: Are we ok, or do we need help?

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"Scubaboard bashing"? really?
How?
I don't see how they could have any impact whatsoever. People get into scubadiving, they want to talk about it, they want to see what other people are doing, they want to find out where the best gear deals are, they want to find out where the good boats are, they want to find out where the best places are to go on dive vacations, they want to find out about training, etc.
So they do a google search on "scuba diving" or "scuba diving forums" and scubaboard pops up. How on earth is DEMA going to stop that?
Most divers never see a hint about anything DEMA. DEMA has no impact on the actual diver or their actions or decisions at all.
DEMA is for the most part irrelevant to the average active diver.

It's the diving public that supports the industry not DEMA.

Yes indeed, as they say "Hammer on the nail".

Actually you make very valid points all round, I was involved in this business for over 20 years and was an international attendee to Dema for, I dunno, maybe 15/17 years (I use the past tense as I am now retired) but frankly, in my opinion Dema has just become a sort of expensive destination to meet and greet friends in the industry, as a tool to drive people to the sport it really has no influence at all.

---------- Post added January 27th, 2014 at 03:57 PM ----------

Dues cost $200 per year. A booth at the show is $1795 For that I get a booth at the show, but then, there is travel, hotel, shipping, etc. The Vegas show costs me about $5k, the Orlando show is the same less airfare. What I get is the exposure of many dive shops, and to the industry in general. The one year we didn't show out of the last 25 I got a hundred e-mails asking if we were still in business.

Consumer shows are by far a better bang for the buck.

Absolutely, Dema is expensive, as an international visitor it costs me roughly 5-6k to attend dema, thats long distance air tickets, hotels, etc bearing in mind I need to be there a few days prior to the show to just recover from the jet lag. Its a major cost and one needs to be sure it can be recouped. Recently that hasn't happened either.

I have long been an advocate of turning Dema into a two day trade and a two day consumer show, personally it takes me a day to see suppliers and a day to walk around, even less recently, as the show has shrunk so much, but allowing the public in, could, I think, have an impact on the marketing side of scuba.

 

[tech_diver]

Excellent, excellent thread! I've been soaking up every word and it has stirred some random thoughts on the topics.

I've been a diver since I was a kid and my situation was just as someone described for kids growing up on the Florida beaches. I grew up in Texas with 3 nice lakes and some spring fed rivers within an hour of me. I saved money for a cert and basic rig by running a paper route for a summer. I think there are still areas where this model for developing a young diver can still apply but what's missing is Jacques Cousteau or Mike Nelson to get people excited. Perhaps it just takes more to get people excited nowadays.

I've been in the dive biz for about 18 years working my way up from tank monkey to running a scuba brand and in that time I've seen DEMA try everything. I don't have any answers for them.

When I first started dealing with dive shops on a large scale (hundreds of stores across North America), I thought that all the successful stores would look the same. That there was some recipe to create a growing dive retail operation. However, It turns out that all the successful stores have some generalities in common as far as business awareness but beyond that, each is a radically different organism adapted to their specific environment. An inland store a thousand miles from the ocean might be clean, shiny, carpeted but never sold a speargun in their history. A destination shop floating on a dock might do big sales in spearguns and steel tanks. The customers of each of those stores are going to be radically different organisms. It is a challenge for one large over-arching organization to provide marketing service to both shops in one campaign. Again, to beat a dead cliche', perhaps what we need is the Jacques Cousteau, Mike Nelson effect. Could DEMA create that character? I think the local shops have valuable insights into creating divers in their specific environment that may not work in other environments.

Finally...
As an aside to creating new divers, the individual retailers may have room to market more services and products to existing divers. I'll never forget a marketing seminar at a DEMA show in the early 1990's. The marketing guru was in front of a room filled with dive retailers going on about 'growing the pie' to increase business. After the seminar, I walked out onto a DEMA floor that was all about the dangers of nitrox and stopping the suicidal tech diving movement.

JYC, Mike Nelson and DEMA can come and go but a successful business still just stays focused on providing the service the customers want at a competitive price. Not every diver wants to hang out chit chatting with other divers in a shop equipped with a cappuccino machine but in some markets, a cappuccino machine may be the edge over your competition that makes a difference.

 

[carltona]

Yes indeed, as they say "Hammer on the nail".

Actually you make very valid points all round, I was involved in this business for over 20 years and was an international attendee to Dema for, I dunno, maybe 15/17 years (I use the past tense as I am now retired) but frankly, in my opinion Dema has just become a sort of expensive destination to meet and greet friends in the industry, as a tool to drive people to the sport it really has no influence at all.

---------- Post added January 27th, 2014 at 03:57 PM ----------



Absolutely, Dema is expensive, as an international visitor it costs me roughly 5-6k to attend dema, thats long distance air tickets, hotels, etc bearing in mind I need to be there a few days prior to the show to just recover from the jet lag. Its a major cost and one needs to be sure it can be recouped. Recently that hasn't happened either.

I have long been an advocate of turning Dema into a two day trade and a two day consumer show, personally it takes me a day to see suppliers and a day to walk around, even less recently, as the show has shrunk so much, but allowing the public in, could, I think, have an impact on the marketing side of scuba.

Couldn't agree more. I did DEMA this year for the first time with a new product concept and it was AWESOME in the amount of money I spent. Just getting internet or electric to the booth is a staggering expense. I learned a lot for my money and won't be doing DEMA again as an exhibitor. I made some contacts that I thought were good but haven't panned out, yet I hold hope but not much. My money will be better spent elsewhere.

---------- Post added January 28th, 2014 at 12:15 PM ----------

Okay, I am now basically up to speed and have read this entire thread and am humbled by the expertise and experience of all the posters.

I am retired now and have started a cottage business making customizable dive bags. Just what the world needs, another bag maker just like we need another backplate, regulator, fin manufacturer.

RJP in one of his excellent posts listed these steps to the buying process

(1) Awareness: prospects come to know about a product but lack sufficient information about it;
(2) Interest: they try to get more information;
(3) Evaluation: they consider whether the product is beneficial;
(4) Trial: they make the first purchase to determine its worth or usefulness;
(5) Adoption/Rejection: they decide whether to make repeat purchases of the product... or not

#1 is the biggest step and the top of the sales funnel. Without awareness you can't take any of the other steps. My struggle is with #1.
As I stated in a earlier post, I launched this product at DEMA this year to build some awareness and learned that was not the best step.

Yes, I got to meet a lot of retailers but the overwhelming opinion was that nobody would spend $135 for a mesh bag.

Mesh bags are for onions, dirty laundry and you get a free one with your mask,snorkel, fin purchase. You can buy them on-line for $20. So I have a lot to overcome.

What keeps me going is the Christmas present I got from my 28 year old son. I got a tee shirt.

It was soft and comfortable but I was completely underwhelmed. I got a tee shirt.
I smiled and thanked him but I think he sensed my mood.
He said " you know that's a LULULEMON shirt.
"Oh" I said, "that's really nice" I had no idea what a LULULEMON was so I looked it up.

He spent $68 for a tee shirt. "WOW" I thought, "That's an expensive Tee Shirt" My son and his wife wear this clothing all the time.

That's what keeps me going. There are people who will spend $68 for a tee shirt. I know it's not just a tee shirt, LULULEMON caters to upscale people who do yoga and drink Chevis Regal, drive Lexus, have titanium regulators, custom drysuits, and ride unicorns.

Maybe I've got to find the message that speaks to these people but I am far from there yet.
Right now my customers all like their bags because they're unique. They don't drive Lexus, they have Toyotas, they don't drink Chevis they drink fruity rum and tequila concoctions and lite beer. This is something they've designed and its uniquely theirs.

I will plod along, hopefully finding the right method to generate awareness.

By the way, I love my LULULEMON shirt and have actually bought another one.

Old dogs do learn new tricks, it just takes longer and the motivation has to be right.

 

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---------- Post added January 28th, 2014 at 12:15 PM ----------

Okay, I am now basically up to speed and have read this entire thread and am humbled by the expertise and experience of all the posters.

I am retired now and have started a cottage business making customizable dive bags. Just what the world needs, another bag maker just like we need another backplate, regulator, fin manufacturer.

RJP in one of his excellent posts listed these steps to the buying process

(1) Awareness: prospects come to know about a product but lack sufficient information about it;
(2) Interest: they try to get more information;
(3) Evaluation: they consider whether the product is beneficial;
(4) Trial: they make the first purchase to determine its worth or usefulness;
(5) Adoption/Rejection: they decide whether to make repeat purchases of the product... or not

#1 is the biggest step and the top of the sales funnel. Without awareness you can't take any of the other steps. My struggle is with #1.
As I stated in a earlier post, I launched this product at DEMA this year to build some awareness and learned that was not the best step.

Yes, I got to meet a lot of retailers but the overwhelming opinion was that nobody would spend $135 for a mesh bag.

Mesh bags are for onions, dirty laundry and you get a free one with your mask,snorkel, fin purchase. You can buy them on-line for $20. So I have a lot to overcome.

.

Nice post carltona, I like the light hearted way you put an excellent point across. The sad truth is Dema is about trade markets, and sadly I think trade markets are conditioned to look to the quick easy selling item, it takes too much time and effort to convince a buyer to buy say a special bag (like yours) when they could have used the same time and sold three "onion bags" to three clients who have paid up and left already. Its understandable, but dont be discouraged, because there are customers out there looking for your product, you just wont find them at Dema in its present format, but you probably will find them at local consumer shows, which in my view just re enforces the point I have long advocated, Dema needs to open its doors to the public.

For the life of me I cannot see why they continue to resist this, two days trade and two days public, its simple, everybody is already there, very few shops carry an entire lines catalog so customers can see, feel and discuss products they may not see in their local shops, go back and buy it, new manufacturers get a chance to showcase their lines and hear first hand from the guys who are ultimately buying the line what they think, in this day of internet and social media every supplier I have ever known is doing his utmost to get CLOSER to his end user, not further away, the days of a manufacturer / brand / distributor been some shadowy mythical figure where the management were better protected from the public than endangered animal species are over, allowing the public in means everybody wins, I thought thats what we wanted.?

 

[Wookie]

See, I use titanium regulators, drive a 12 year old f-250, and have a 38 year old boat. What is it about these things. Oh, yeah. Reliability. See, convince me that the $135 bag is the last one I'll ever buy (the titanium regulator was from the first year Atomic existed) and I'll take 2, because I don't want to see my gear spread out on the ground at Miami International (I did once), I don't want to see a zipper fail, even if I don't take care of it (I can't tell you how many regulator bags I've cut open because I wanted my spare regulator NOW!!), I want it to be comfortable on one or both shoulders, depending on my mood. Yes, we'll get funny looks because I could have gone to Diver's Direct and bought 5 $20 bags and they would have lasted 5 years, but I don't have to do that. I'll have a SplashBag and I'll never replace it. I'll also feel good that it has a "Made in America" tag sewn in.

Newer diesel F-250's are junk, although there is hope for the 2015 engine.

Aluminum made after 1981 is junk, because they changed the alloy to remove some of the Manganese or something.

But a t-shirt only lasts long enough to get completely covered with grease, then it goes to the rag bin, about 8 1/2 months, so I'll never see the reliability of a $68 t-shirt.

---------- Post added January 28th, 2014 at 02:48 PM ----------

....you just wont find them at Dema in its present format, but you probably will find them at local consumer shows, which in my view just re enforces the point I have long advocated, Dema needs to open its doors to the public.

For the life of me I cannot see why they continue to resist this, two days trade and two days public, its simple, everybody is already there, very few shops carry an entire lines catalog so customers can see, feel and discuss products they may not see in their local shops, go back and buy it, new manufacturers get a chance to showcase their lines and hear first hand from the guys who are ultimately buying the line what they think, in this day of internet and social media every supplier I have ever known is doing his utmost to get CLOSER to his end user, not further away, the days of a manufacturer / brand / distributor been some shadowy mythical figure where the management were better protected from the public than endangered animal species are over, allowing the public in means everybody wins, I thought thats what we wanted.?

DEMA needs to just go away, so the manufacturers can concentrate on the local shows. The local shows need to be bigger, on par with BTS and OWU. The public will not bail DEMA out, for the simple reason that it's hard to separate the wheat from the chaff. I go to DEMA with a different game face than I do at a consumer show. I look at badge color at DEMA, because I don't want to give wholesale prices to retail customers. I don't want to have to ship as much wholesale material as I do retail material. At BTS or OWU, I am prepared for the retail customer with a few pieces of wholesale material. If you don't know who you are dealing with, the wrong person gets the wrong info.

DEMA needs to be 4 days long. I do far more business at the TDI (used to be RBW) tech party, the Diver's Direct party, the HOG/EDGE whatever you call it (it goes beyond party, but stops somewhere short of jail) than I do on the show floor. Without 4 days, I wouldn't know which party to go to.

 

[cerich]

, the HOG/EDGE whatever you call it (it goes beyond party, but stops somewhere short of jail) than I do on the show floor.

you owe me a keyboard..lol

 

[mjrob]

We're kind of wandering here, so let me continue that. First, Wook, I really like the diesel in my '14 F250. That thing'll pull the house around. 400HP and 800 lbs. of torque...oooooohh baby. And it has auto start and auxiliary electric heat so I don't freeze to death driving to work. The one in my '08 was crap. My wife says it rides too rough so she sticks with her Lexus. Now, if I could just find somewhere to buy a bag for my dive gear that wouldn't wear out every two years. And where'd that friggin' unicorn get off to again?

 

[WestNCDiver]

We're kind of wandering here, so let me continue that. First, Wook, I really like the diesel in my '14 F250. That thing'll pull the house around. 400HP and 800 lbs. of torque...oooooohh baby. And it has auto start and auxiliary electric heat so I don't freeze to death driving to work. The one in my '08 was crap. My wife says it rides too rough so she sticks with her Lexus. Now, if I could just find somewhere to buy a bag for my dive gear that wouldn't wear out every two years. And where'd that friggin' unicorn get off to again?

View attachment 176429

I did the same thing with vinyl on the front of my ford

Sent from my R800x using Tapatalk 2

 

[drrich2]

With talk of the industry contracting, criticism of 'behind the times' small dive shops owned by hobbyists with inefficient business models, etc..., I'm wondering where the industry is headed. In other words, what will the dive shop industry (to name one) look like in 10 or 12 years? This might be good to know for planning your marketing, if you're a dive shop.

Will the drive for efficiency lead to big chains (or the industry equivalent) buying up or out-competing 'Mom and Pop' single family operations? We already see dive shops who effectively have dealerships for some name brand lines - 'official' vendors (so the warranty's good). In the future, will some of them be LeisurePro franchises?

For that matter, wonder whether a big provider like LeisurePro would find it worthwhile buy out a popular live-aboard, and use cross marketing (e.g.: buy a complete gear set save $200 on an AquaCat 7 day Bahamas trip; make sure all the boat rental gear was LeisurePro written all over it).

A popular LDS point is that you can't fill your tanks online. True. Wonder is there's an emerging market for economical personal compressors with relatively idiot-proof maintenance?

My perception locally (southwestern KY) is that once you're certified, dive trips can be learned of via websites and following on Facebook, where avid divers can find them, but I don't see much of a marketing push to entice the recently certified, still not committed diver. I wonder whether warm, friendly 'turn key' (i.e.: you don't have to do anything but show up & have fun) group trips would improve diver retention & word of mouth marketing? If my old instructor didn't do frequent group Bonaire trips, I wouldn't have made my 1'rst 4 with him. Which led to me growing as a diver and taking the Nitrox, AOW and Deep PADI courses. And buying more gear. And pouring more money into the scuba industry, speaking well of diving to others, etc...

Perhaps a strongly effort could be made to woo the recently certified into a solidified participation in the so-called diving lifestyle (or hobby, if you prefer)?

Richard.

 

[carltona]

See, I use titanium regulators, drive a 12 year old f-250, and have a 38 year old boat. What is it about these things. Oh, yeah. Reliability. See, convince me that the $135 bag is the last one I'll ever buy (the titanium regulator was from the first year Atomic existed) and I'll take 2, because I don't want to see my gear spread out on the ground at Miami International (I did once), I don't want to see a zipper fail, even if I don't take care of it (I can't tell you how many regulator bags I've cut open because I wanted my spare regulator NOW!!), I want it to be comfortable on one or both shoulders, depending on my mood. Yes, we'll get funny looks because I could have gone to Diver's Direct and bought 5 $20 bags and they would have lasted 5 years, but I don't have to do that. I'll have a SplashBag and I'll never replace it. I'll also feel good that it has a "Made in America" tag sewn in.

Newer diesel F-250's are junk, although there is hope for the 2015 engine.

Aluminum made after 1981 is junk, because they changed the alloy to remove some of the Manganese or something.

But a t-shirt only lasts long enough to get completely covered with grease, then it goes to the rag bin, about 8 1/2 months, so I'll never see the reliability of a $68 t-shirt.
.

Made in the USA in Key Largo , bag mesh is from Alabama. I have no idea where YKK #10 zippers are made but they're pretty tough and non-metal. These bags are built Ford Tough but even Fords have non-usa parts. I live at mm100 I know where M/V Spree is in Garden Cove, How about I drop off a bag for you to demo? Put your onions in it for the next cruise let me know what you think.