Mark of the Tech Diver!

[Wookie]

Well, if the OP's list is aimed at noobs then I'd contend that the list is even MORE problematic than I thought!



Not listing "training, mindset, and approach" as necessary steps to becoming a tech diver - but instead leading haplessly naive folks to believe that merely buying gear is sufficient to do tech dives - is a recipe for disaster.

:shocked2:

And I would contend that the mindset and approach are reinforced by the training, and the training comes with the equipment specified. That's how modern scuba works, correctly or not. I know many self-taught "tech" divers, usually wreck penetration guys. I think most would benefit from formal training, even though they have the mindset.

I don't think the OP was trying to imply that buying or using gear made one a "tech" diver.

These dives are all "recreational" unless your involved in commercial diving. I know that the term "technical" is difficult to wrap our head around, but I consider myself a "technical diver" and the aforementioned list falls short of my definition of what in-particular is required by way of training. When you separate recreational from technical I find it confusing. Perhaps the term recreational tech is a better descriptor. 10 days of training (or less) doesn't make you a technical diver imo. It just bends the envelope of recreational diving a bit.

As you know, I happen to agree with you. But I think that the term "tech diving" has come to mean "advanced recreational diving" or "diving beyond recreational limits"

 

[SailNaked]

I'm trying to follow you Wookie.. but I think I am lost not being tech trained. (step #1).

I dive with a BP/W, Long hose, etc.. my way of starting down the path to the dark side.

I think if you were looking for 10 points to grade or define tech divers you would use the dives they do, not the equipment. anyone can use a rebreather and still not be a tech diver and that is #10. (like a photographer with big pockets.)

For me #1 step is tech training, like it says "intro to tech" even divers that are fully trained and have never done a dive outside of class, how can you classify tech divers only by things like the ability to use basic nitrox? where do they dive this tech stuff, have they had success?

maybe the post is just to describe what the elements of tech are on a sliding scale toward the dark side.
ok then
1. use of tech equipment like BP,doubles,long hose,drysuit.
2. tech training nitrox,adv nitrox, cavern...
3. more training Deco Proc.
4. more diving at depths and times exceeding Rec limits.
5. more training extended range, intro to trimix, cave1.
6. Trimix experience, (w or w/o rebreather).
7. more training hypoxic mixes, bottom gas use.
8. more Diving
9 more training, adv wreck, cave 2, ?safety diver?
10. more tech diving that does not kill you, and now you are a full tech diver.

(list only from a demented mind not for training purposes)

 

[DCBC]

As you know, I happen to agree with you. But I think that the term "tech diving" has come to mean "advanced recreational diving" or "diving beyond recreational limits"

Thanks Wookie. Perhaps the whole concept should be reviewed. What are recreational limits? I know that PADI, NAUI and other traditional agencies have listed 130' as the maximum "recreational limit," but this has to be revisited as the recreational technical organizations also need to be considered. I like your term "advanced recreational diving." Over the years, an "advanced diver" certification has been watered down as to the requisite level of knowledge and experience that is necessary.

 

[RJP]

I don't think the OP was trying to imply that buying or using gear made one a "tech" diver.

What he's saying is that the ten things on his list are somehow reliable indicators that a person is a tech diver.

What I'm saying is that if that's true, then this is a reliable indicator that the person wearing it plays shortstop for the NY Yankees...

 

[DCBC]

I think if you were looking for 10 points to grade or define tech divers you would use the dives they do, not the equipment.

I agree. Recreational Tech equipment doesn't make you a Tech Diver anymore than a hammer makes you a Carpenter.

 

[David_57]

To be honest who gives a rats a.s

 

[Wookie]

I'm trying to follow you Wookie.. but I think I am lost not being tech trained. (step #1).

I dive with a BP/W, Long hose, etc.. my way of starting down the path to the dark side.

Okay, for me, diving was a progression. I learned to dive, and developed the skills and training necessary to become an instructor. Strictly recreational, strictly gear that you could walk into any dive shop and buy all day long. Nothing that had to be ordered, nothing that required extra training. If I hadn't been between jobs, I would never have advanced beyond AOW.

Then I bought a boat, and started watching other divers. I found that they brought a wealth of knowledge to me, both from what they did, and what they didn't. I watched them come with rebreathers, and they scared the hell out of me. I watched them run out of gas, and they scared the hell out of me. I ran out of gas on a working dive, and it scared the hell out of me, and bent me, so I bought a pony. Sometime around this time, I saw the DIR guys, and some of them scared me, but they had some awesome ideas, like long hose so I got some mentoring.

About this time, we started running tech charters, so I thought it would be smart of me to get some training. Unfortunately, my tech training was with an instructor who assumed that as a PADI instructor, I knew all there was to know about tech diving, and I was issued a card after paying the appropriate fees. I get a lot of mentoring by some hot runners in the diving community who ask me why I do things the way I do, then tell me how messed up I am and try to fix me. I still ask a lot of questions, and am blessed to be able to dive with guys who made this stuff up.

I get a lot of commercial divers who go with me recreationally, who bring commercial habits into the mix. I get to see a lot of rebreathers and while you couldn't get me on one for love nor money, I understand how they work. You wouldn't get me in an overhead, either, but I (in my mind) know how to dive in one.

I wouldn't have picked the OP's progression as the way to tech diving, but I can see how many would. As your diving habits change over time, so do the tools you use to make that diving safer, easier, and more enjoyable. I've only met one person who started with a rebreather and he was trained by the best in the business, and a guy who makes up certification agency rules. He owns the certification agency.

I also met a guy who was a zero to hero. He plunked down cash as an open water student to become a trimix diver, because his goal was to dive the Doria. He spent over $30k in the dive shop in a single year. In my opinion, he missed the progression from OW diver to tech diver. Technically, he was a competent diver, but he kept getting lost. Some of the skills we learn as divers take serious repetition, and navigation is one of them. I don't know if he ever got on the Doria or not, but he scared the crap out of me.

I guess I see the OP's point because I see diving skills building on each other as the need arises, and as we develop skills to handle the next step. YMMV

Frank

 

[Wookie]

What I'm saying is that if that's true, then this is a reliable indicator that the person wearing it plays shortstop for the NY Yankees...

Just call me ARod.

 

[Chugwhump]

2 out of 10 makes me a 20% tech diver I guess.
I think I am still an 80% "Dork Diver" though.

OK in all seriousness:
I thought the OP was kinda' interesting.
There are certainly gray areas in what "is" and what "is not" tech.
To me...just an putzy old beach diver...the whole term "tech diver" is strange.
There is an argument that anything requiring Deco or Mixed Gas approaches the definition along with the old
"other than 99% of the rest of the world gear configuration".
Does anyone remember the term "VooDoo Gas"....?
Man, were the critics wrong on that one.
It used to be anything that was not taught at the BASIC or O/W level was considered tech. The whole "Tech" approach was about redundancy and "taking it to the next level" (yeesh...Like that is not an overworked expression on anything from Diving to Sports to making a PB&J sandwich) and some other mantras .

So to my mind, what is a tech diver is a rather difficult think to quantify.
The way some of you folks do it seems sorta nutty to me.
Ice
Wreck Penetration
Caves
Mandatory Deco
Solo
Rebreathers
Macro Photography
Quarries

But to some folks, this is routine and mundane as they know how to do it.

Just my 2 pieces of copper that are mostly made of zinc.

Whatever...C'est la vie!

Chug
(Had 4 years of French in HS)

 

[Scott L]

What he's saying is that the ten things on his list are somehow reliable indicators that a person is a tech diver.

What I'm saying is that if that's true, then this is a reliable indicator that the person wearing it plays shortstop for the NY Yankees...

Strawman argument, so I guess that would be Darryl Strawberry's cap.