Major Industry Change re: Online Scuba Sales....

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Here’s my take on all this. Nothing really new on what’s been said, but perhaps with a different slant…

PADI only cares about PADI. I don’t think PADI cares for being the “loss leader” in the current model with $99 certifications, etc. They don’t care how it shakes out or how many LDS’ or manufacturers go out of business, they’re tired of only getting a tiny slice of the pie.

If they can get the hardware to go to the internet, shops will be forced to charge a fair price for instruction. If the LDS charges a fair price for instruction, two things happen:

1. PADI can up their certification charges to the LDS, because the LDS will simply pass this onto the customer rather than trying to “make it up” via sales.
2. The independents have a fighting chance.

Both will increase PADI’s profit margin, which is the only thing that PADI’s interested in.

I see internet sales as a good thing. Someone mentioned photography as a similar market and they’re right. Local photo stores exist as well as the big online stores. The local photo stores often have classes, just like dive shops. The models are quite similar, except for the current artificial environment in the dive equipment area created by the manufacturers. Even the number of “big” manufacturers is approximately the same.

But we have to learn to pay a fair price for service (including air fills) as well as training. No more of this hokey “You didn’t buy it from here, I won’t service it” crap that some shops pull. I can bring my Ford into any dealer and they’ll happily service it and charge me for that service.

Bottom line is that equipment cost will fall, training, air fills and service cost will rise. Overall consumer cost will remain approximately the same, the LDS’s and manufacturers will become more cost competitive or die and PADI will get a bigger cut.

The last point being the only thing driving PADI’s position.

And maybe, just maybe with the independents having a fighting chance, we can get the crappy instructors out of the training pool, figuratively as well as literally.

Roak
 
roakey:
If they can get the hardware to go to the internet, shops will be forced to charge a fair price for instruction. If the LDS charges a fair price for instruction, two things happen:

1. PADI can up their certification charges to the LDS, because the LDS will simply pass this onto the customer rather than trying to “make it up” via sales.
2. The independents have a fighting chance.

Both will increase PADI’s profit margin, which is the only thing that PADI’s interested in.

snip

Bottom line is that equipment cost will fall, training, air fills and service cost will rise. Overall consumer cost will remain approximately the same, the LDS’s and manufacturers will become more cost competitive or die and PADI will get a bigger cut.

The last point being the only thing driving PADI’s position.

And maybe, just maybe with the independents having a fighting chance, we can get the crappy instructors out of the training pool, figuratively as well as literally.

Roak
I suspect that if training is driven towards the independent instructors PADI will not be the big gainer.
 
roakey:
Bottom line is that equipment cost will fall, training, air fills and service cost will rise. Overall consumer cost will remain approximately the same, the LDS’s and manufacturers will become more cost competitive or die and PADI will get a bigger cut.

A bigger cut of what?

I might be wrong, since I'm primarily familiar with SSI, but AFAIK, PADI gets paid for training materials, C-Cards, and some fees to hand out their "5-star" stickers.

The only thing that would make PADI more money is selling more classes or C-Cards, or raising their prices.


Terry
 
Web Monkey:
The only thing that would make PADI more money is selling more classes or C-Cards, or raising their prices.
I'm referring to the latter. If we really started paying a fair price for training, PADI would up their prices.

Roak
 
Thalassamania:
I suspect that if training is driven towards the independent instructors PADI will not be the big gainer.
Why do you think that?

Roak
 
Ever notice that the internet gives you good deals on some things and then does not do very good in others...This business model allows for the isolation of the consumer to a single store and the maintenance of high prices, which result in a "high margin of profit on high volume".
Most sites don't care what you buy, they don't have to see you after you have dove those fins, or look at you when that reg freezes at 48 degrees... Ever try on a mask on the internet....Ever look and try on fins on the internet...what about that snorkel....How about service?.I just bought my BCD and something is wrong...maybe is a easy fix at the dive shop...instead of the 2 weeks of shipping back and fourth to the internet store...
Maybe I bought a reg online and my store does not service that brand because that brand only sells parts to authorized sellers (great move scuba pro..)
Ever get advice on a few models....maybe on a regulator...The APEX is a good reg..ever get it serviced...compared to a Sherwood...
Ever take a class from the internet store?
Ever get an air fill from the internet store?
The internet has its place...but unless you are in some unique region where you can only get one store to shop from...most shops have package deals the match or beat the internet....
Here is a perfect example of the internet store:
TUSA Dive in Color Package
Dive in Pink Personal Gear Package
Tri-EX Fins, M-16 Serene Mask, SP-170 Hyperdry Snorkel
$167.00
shipping....?

I found the Tri-EX fins all over the internet for $79.00. ($89.00 at the local dive shop), serene mask $59.00 all over the internet. (59.99 at the local dive shop) and the SP-170 snorkel for $32.00 ($34.99 at the local dive shop). The total of $170.00, thanks diveshop.com for the $3.00 savings in the package...
My dive store gives a minimum of 10% on packages...so they are $185.00 minus 10% ($166.50)..and I get to try on the product...SO I see your point on how we are better served by the internet...:crafty:
oh..by the way...did anyone tell the customer that they might need a neoprene boot to go with these? And you might have to pay sales tax....good... maybe the police or fire department will have gas to help you!

By the way, I am not a scuba store owner, just believe that if you can find a good store with options, get good service and be able to get good advice..it's worth spending a couple extra bucks for...
 
Roak, your correct. How did that shop make any money on that $99.00 cert class..they don't, they may have lost money. I doesn't take much to look around the class and count the students at $300.00 per student, subtract the book (atleast 80% of the book), pool fee's and count the hours they put in, teaching and preparing your gear, tanks, ect...how much are they really making? I want the dive store I do business with to make a profit...I need them to be there...

P.S. some manufacture's (scubapro) doesn't sell reg rebuild kits to non authorized dealers...not sure about the others...but who want's to dive semi-pro when Sherwood is available...
 
scubanaked:
Ever notice that the internet gives you good deals on some things and then does not do very good in others...This business model allows for the isolation of the consumer to a single store and the maintenance of high prices, which result in a "high margin of profit on high volume".
Most sites don't care what you buy, they don't have to see you after you have dove those fins, or look at you when that reg freezes at 48 degrees... Ever try on a mask on the internet....Ever look and try on fins on the internet...what about that snorkel....How about service?.I just bought my BCD and something is wrong...maybe is a easy fix at the dive shop...instead of the 2 weeks of shipping back and fourth to the internet store...
Maybe I bought a reg online and my store does not service that brand because that brand only sells parts to authorized sellers (great move scuba pro..)
Ever get advice on a few models....maybe on a regulator...The APEX is a good reg..ever get it serviced...compared to a Sherwood...
Ever take a class from the internet store?
Ever get an air fill from the internet store?
The internet has its place...but unless you are in some unique region where you can only get one store to shop from...most shops have package deals the match or beat the internet....

I found the Tri-EX fins all over the internet for $79.00. ($89.00 at the local dive shop), serene mask $59.00 all over the internet. (59.99 at the local dive shop) and the SP-170 snorkel for $32.00 ($34.99 at the local dive shop). The total of $170.00, thanks diveshop.com for the $3.00 savings in the package...
My dive store gives a minimum of 10% on packages...so they are $185.00 minus 10% ($166.50)..and I get to try on the product...SO I see your point on how we are better served by the internet...:crafty:
oh..by the way...did anyone tell the customer that they might need a neoprene boot to go with these? And you might have to pay sales tax....good... maybe the police or fire department will have gas to help you!

By the way, I am not a scuba store owner, just believe that if you can find a good store with options, get good service and be able to get good advice..it's worth spending a couple extra bucks for...


Do you know WHY you get such a deal at the LDS? They are trying to keep up with the online shops!

As for your other arguments, the validity depends entirely on a case by case basis. OK, you got a bad product which you bought from your LDS. Maybe the shop gives you an exchange on the spot, or maybe they don't. Maybe they put it back into the repair pile and call you 2 weeks later, to tell you that it can't be fixed locally, and must be sent back to the factory. It's happened many times to people.

As for MAYBE needing a pair of boots to go with the fins (not everyone uses them you know) that's up to the online shopper. If you don't know WHAT you need, you have no one to blame but yourself.

Please stop with the tired old scare tactics thrown out by LDS's. I have NO, say again, NO LDS. But guess what? I have a local instructor! SHOCK :11: an independant instructor! SAY IT ISN"T SO!!! I also get local air fills. BUT I HAVE NO LDS!!!!! HOW CAN THAT BE??!! :confused:

BTW- If I buy a reg from an online-LDS like ScubaToys, I can send the reg back to them for servicing. It would be cheaper than the gas money to drive over 100 miles each way to my nearest LDS.

You gotta remember one thing. Not everyone has it as good as you do. Some people have no LDS. Some people have only a crappy LDS. Some people have a great LDS and instructors that can't carry the brand of gear they want. Thankfully we have the internet to get what we want/need for scuba diving.

FD
 
scubanaked:
Ever notice that the internet


I snipped the rest of the ignorant BS from the dive shop shill who couldn't hang in an intelligent debate based on reason and logic.

Maybe the person who doesn't know what they NEED should pay for the hand-holding. If they feel the "service" and "advice" is worth spending a few extra bucks at the LDS, then they should spend their few extra bucks there and zip it with regards to where I spend my extra bucks.

BTW, here's one of many ScubaPro regulator parts kits on Ebay.
 
I don't think I totally discounted the internet...it is just not as good as most people think it is. Thought one example of what took me 5 minutes to do on one of the most popular fins on the internet might show that they are not always the best deal. And I guess the person might need a little hand holding or like to actually try on something to see why you might one product over the other. And I will skip the scuba semi pro parts kit...and please spend your money where ever you want....some LDS probably wouldn't want to deal with everybody...especially the ones that know everything about everything and don't want to here advice....
 

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