Major Industry Change re: Online Scuba Sales....

[cerich]

After reading Beech Nut and Park, Davis & Co. more closely, I'm not sure either would apply as in both cases there was no agreement between the two parties. I would imagine that manufacturers have all LDSs sign some sort of agreement. BTW, you realize 362 U.S. 29 is the Park, Davis & Co. case right? Law background?

Some companies in scuba don't have a thing "written" in the dealer agreements regarding the pricing. It is enforced by word of mouth (via reps and sales management) and practice (majority of LDS only too happy to comply). There is also situations where a dealer signed the initial dealers agreement with no ending date, only to be presented another years later that had retail price restrictions under the threat that he/she would be cut off if they didn't sign the new dealers agreement that superseded the old non expiring contract.

I cut and pasted the wrong one, should have been 257 U.S. 441

Law background?, heck no, only some practice in reading the National Defense Act while I was in the military (Canada's version of U.C.M.J.)

In fact one company in the scuba industry tells its dealers not to report those that violate pricing, to avoid falling squarely under this. On another note the fact that products are available from grey market sources actually lessens the problem, after all how can there be a proven monopoly when the grey market does in fact exist?

 

[The Chairman]

Oceanic Worldwide has always been on the leading edge of product technology. At DEMA Show 2006, Oceanic will show that the company is also on the leading edge in INTERNET technology. The company will be sponsoring a special seminar titled, “Making the Internet Work for You.”

Smart as they are, they even asked me to be a part of the panel representing Internet Communitites and "Buzz" Advertising.

 

[Scared Silly]

When I recently bought my truck I went into the dealer and said I do not want to haggle so give me your best price. They came back with a price that I did not feel was their best price based on my research. So I walked out - the sale guy was offended. I went in to another dealer and did the same thing. They started at invoice and went from there and gave me their best price which was right in line with what I thought it should be. Three months later I got my truck.

I do the same thing with most major purchases whether it be scuba gear or something else. My typical approach is to ask so what is this going to run me? I usually get a fair price that depending on the item may be any where from 10-20% off the MSRP. Sometime more if I pay in cash.

One of my local technical climbing shops has a consignment area. Their rules are pretty simple - bring in any gear to sell. If it sells, you can take the cash less 20% or spend it in the store for 100%. I think it works great and helps add little to their bottomline.

I think the MSRP is a funny term. It is the suggested price. I figure if they are going to suggest their price, then I will suggest mine. And if we can come to agreement on the price a sale is made.

 

[scubadobadoo]

I didn't realize you were in NYC, that probably has more to do with the price you pay for air fills than anything else.

Actually most here charge about 5 bucks or less for my tanks. Just the closest one charges 10+ per tank. Craziness.

As for the haggle that goes along with buying a new car...I HATED THAT RECENT EXPERIENCE AND WOULD RATHER EAT BROKEN GLASS THAN GO THROUGH THAT MISERY AGAIN.:shakehead

 

[rockjock3]

It is such a shame the world is coming to this money for nothing and cheaper is better attitude. Do you buy your groceries on line? Lets all start doing that and push the local grocery stores out too. What started out as a good information source has turned into a beast for get rich people for nothing that are not willing to put in a little old fashon hard work and the cheap consumers have fallen for the bait.

I do, then I drive to the grocery store, have the groceries loaded and take them back home. It saves me an hour of walking around the store with the kids in tow. I can order my groceries online, then we go to the park for an hour-two before we hit the grocery store. It is called competition and technology. Jump on the train or get ran over.

 

[RJTY]

I dont believe I am being run over by anything. I prefer to go to my local LDS instead of being cheap and Lazy. If I dont like one shop, i find another. I am like this for all of my purchases.

 

[ReefHound]

I prefer to go to my local LDS instead of being cheap and Lazy.

Now you're just stirring the pot. So those who don't go to the LDS are "cheap and lazy". That's just ignorant when you have no idea what alternate use the person is making with their time or money.

 

[RJTY]

Ok, you are right. I should have been more careful as to how I stated that, but I have been hit a couple of times in this thread by people judging me without facts. In my experiences, I believe that the majority of the people that are buying on line can afford to buy what they want where they want to. Instead, they are so afraid of somebody making a buck on them, they spend countless hours reviewing sites that will sell anything slightly over costs because of the bulk. All to prove a point. Look at how much I saved!! To me, diving is more than doing as cheap as possible. Its about the relationships and experiences I have made along the way. It started with where I got my training and bought my gear.

 

[ReefHound]

Ok, you are right. I should have been more careful as to how I stated that, but I have been hit a couple of times in this thread by people judging me without facts. In my experiences, I believe that the majority of the people that are buying on line can afford to buy what they want where they want to. Instead, they are so afraid of somebody making a buck on them, they spend countless hours reviewing sites that will sell anything slightly over costs because of the bulk. All to prove a point. Look at how much I saved!! To me, diving is more than doing as cheap as possible. Its about the relationships and experiences I have made along the way. It started with where I got my training and bought my gear.

I don't know many people - certainly not myself - that can afford to buy everything I want. I have a long wishlist and everytime I buy something and think I'm whittling it down, I take a look and discover it's actually longer than ever! So yeah, I could buy that reg from the LDS for $500 instead of getting it online for $400. But that will affect other purchases and trips. I'm not trying to save money to make a smug point but to get the most value from my available funds.

I don't think it takes hours to compare online prices. It takes hours to do thorough product research (which I feel would be necessary even buying at the LDS), viewing numerous threads and reviews, talking to other divers, to determine what I really want to buy. But once I have the product defined, it takes less than 5 minutes to hit the major online retailers.

I agree, it's about the relationships and experiences. Situations vary, but I fulfill that by being active in several active dive clubs and have met/dived with many people from online forums like Scubaboard. I don't need to spend tons of money at the LDS in order to buy friendships.

 

[Debraw]

You may not need to buy tons of gear to make a few friends at a dive shop but I get where RJTY is coming from. Experienced divers know where to go for dive buddies. Scubaboard, dive clubs, etc. New divers that just get into it look for an active dive shop, well at least some of them do. I can not tell you how many phone calls I have taken and how many people I have heard say they picked my dive shop because we talked to them! Can you imagine that? We talked to them, we did our jobs. We got them interested in scuba. Maybe some dive shops put a premium on that. I can go and stay at any number of hotels and yes all I need is a bed, but sometimes I pay the premium price to have my bags brought upstairs, ice to my room and a view of the ocean instead of a backyard alley way. When people buy gear at a dive shop they get a few extras they may not have originally considered. Free air, pool sessions with a staff member, help at the lake from a staff member regarding their new gear. Invitations to dive with the shop, over and over again. I just gave away two free dry suit certifications and they did not even buy a dry suit. They had purchased a few items of gear, and I thought this may be a great way to say thank you and extend their diving season a few weeks. Customer service is also a two way street. I am way nicer to people who are nice to me and respect what I am trying to do in my dive shop. If they do not show loyalty, then why should I? I honestly do not think I am alone in this mentality. I just think a lot of dive shop owners do not visit this board and ultimately no one knows that they are doing out there. I am not Wal-Mart, I am a chick with a dive shop just trying to make it one more day.