Major Industry Change re: Online Scuba Sales....

[cerich]

The justification is that when you open a business selling a product it should be done with the expectation that consumers will price shop and ask questions. Why should a consumer approach our industry any different than any other they deal with everyday?

You are correct, the future that is talked about here could lead to less new divers, that is why the industry MUST adapt to consumer expectations with a business model that allows the LDS to survive and prosper, that business model can NOT expect consumers not to use the Internet and be price savvy just like every other industry today.

I have no idea if you are an Oceanic dealer, but we are having a seminar on exactly this at DEMA, you are invited to come! PM me if you wish to.

Best,

Chris

 

[ReefHound]

I want to know how it is justified to go to your local dive store and tie up their employees time to get educated on a product, try it on or operate it and then go home and look for the best price on the internet. How can a local retailer absorb those costs to help the online sales. The local retailer is the showroom for the online retailer.

Let's have an honest discussion without name calling, this should be an education for all of us. Maybe we can find an answer.

I haven't seen anybody advocate using the dealer as a showroom or dressing room then go online. If you need the dealer's advice, pay for the dealer's advice. At least walk in willing to give him a chance to compete. By the same token, because you saw something first at a particular LDS doesn't mean you are obligated to buy it there regardless of price. If you test drive a new car at a dealership, are you wrong to buy that car at another dealership that offers you a significantly better deal?

An honest discussion is what we really need but it's hard when some keep throwing out tired scare tactics like "who will fill tanks" that have been addressed over and over.

 

[fire_diver]

This thread has long since degenerated, and become pointless. I hereby recommend closing the thread. I'm tired of seeing the same facts stated 50 times in 50 ways, and falling on deaf ears (or blind minds in this case)

FD

 

[PhilEllis]

I want to know how it is justified to go to your local dive store and tie up their employees time to get educated on a product, try it on or operate it and then go home and look for the best price on the internet. How can a local retailer absorb those costs to help the online sales. The local retailer is the showroom for the online retailer.

If one takes the bulk of opinions poste,d online is the future, but as a manufacturer, who will create my new customers? If the sales of equipment ends up being an Amazon experience, who will fill tanks, and service product? Scuba Toys, Diveriteexpress.com are good marketers but I doubt the could survive a full blown assult if online retailers had full access to all manufacturers products. Most of posters ARE divers, the bulk of my sales are to NEW divers.

Let's have an honest discussion without name calling, this should be an education for all of us. Maybe we can find an answer.

I will promise you one thing....................

If a customer walks into MY RETAIL CENTER, serious about making a purchase, we do exactly as you say. We educate them on the best equipment solution for their anticipated diving, we work hard to make sure they are sized correctly, we advise them on the upcoming opportunities for continuing education, we offer them a no-questions-asked money back guarantee for 30 days.....even if they use the equipment....and we do everything necessary to secure the sale. And guess what? We ALMOST ALWAYS secure the sale. We seldom have serious buyers walking away to find it cheaper on the internet. Do you know why this is? WE ARE ALREADY PRICE COMPETITIVE! How did we get this way? We opened an internet store, which allowed us to increase our retail volume and our purchasing power. This allowed us to lower our prices.

The problem here is simple. Scuba is a retail business.......it is not a club, sports organization, playground, bar and grill, or any of the other disguises we attempt to wear. It is a retail store. Retail stores must compete with ALL of the market forces allied against them. Competing means superior cost, quality, and delivery. In scuba retail, there are many competitive outlets for disposable income allied against us. That is nature. That is retailing. We are not unique. Every type of retail store has the same competition. But there is one special sad thing about scuba retail................

Store owners have been seeing what was coming down the pike for several years. Instead of responding by migrating their business model to a more competitive one, they simply harped about "customer loyality". They expect the CUSTOMER to solve their problems. The scuba manufacturers have been seeing what was coming down the pike for several years. Instead of modifying the message they teach to the stores, they continued to advocate that the stores do more of the same. When that didn't work, they taught the stores how to threaten the customers with immediate and future impending doom. They threaten the product warranty. They make absure statements like "if you purchase this product over the internet, the dealer that sells it is not an authorized dealer". Guess what. I am either a dealer or i'm not. My method of distribution has NOTHING to do with the warranty. I can't be a dealer one minute and not a dealer the next. Customers aren't stupid. They see completely through this. NEVER have I heard of an industry that has managed to do so well at getting the customers COMPLETELY frustrated with the method of distribution of the product. The ONLY saving grace for the typical scuba store (I am talking in the aggregate here.....if this doesn't apply to your store, then never mind) is that there ARE still a few uninformed, brand new students that walk into the scuba store, thinking they will be properly treated by a competitive business man, only to later learn they have been victim to the "trip and fall" business model. At least they spend all of their money before they get so pi**ed, with the local store and this industry, that they can't see straight.

My god! When is SOMEONE in this business going to quit saying the same thing over and over and actually, maybe, accidentally, read a book about business! Oh well.....

Phil Ellis

(Side Story: My daddy died twenty years ago to this very day. This morning, I have been reflecting a lot about the things he taught me. He taught me a lot. One of his best lessons was simple. When you have the big gun, load it, identify what you are aiming at, aim carefully, and fire!...........But don't fire it at your own feet!)

Thanks,

 

[redacted]

I want to know how it is justified to go to your local dive store and tie up their employees time to get educated on a product, try it on or operate it and then go home and look for the best price on the internet. How can a local retailer absorb those costs to help the online sales. The local retailer is the showroom for the online retailer.

So what is the difference between that and tasting the free samples at the supermarket and then not buying the products? I believe the LDS should be given a fair chance to compete but I don't see any obligation to buy just because a customer entered a store.

I do agree that if a customer plans on buying online, that it is tacky wasting the LDS's time with that purchase.

 

[cerich]

So what is the difference between that and tasting the free samples at the supermarket and then not buying the products? I believe the LDS should be given a fair chance to compete but I don't see any obligation to buy just because a customer entered a store.

I do agree that if a customer plans on buying online, that it is tacky wasting the LDS's time with that purchase.

If tacky were a crime there wouldn't be pink flamingo lawn ornaments...

 

[cool_hardware52]

So what is the difference between that and tasting the free samples at the supermarket and then not buying the products? I believe the LDS should be given a fair chance to compete but I don't see any obligation to buy just because a customer entered a store.

That's a poor analogy. Most of the "free samples" at the local supermarket are usually funded by the supplier, not the local retailer. Some even pay the retailer for the priviledge.

Local retailers earn their higher prices by delivering service (or at least they should)
A local dealer sho has provided presale service has made an investment, and deserves, and needs to realize some compensation for such.

There are a fair number of people who want to go "fondle" the goods at the local dealer and then buy on line. I get exactly such requests a couple time a week at least.

Some get mad as hornets when I explain to them that if they engage a DSS dealer we will refer the sale back to the dealer. That's only fair.


Tobin

 

[redacted]

That's a poor analogy. Most of the "free samples" at the local supermarket are usually funded by the supplier, not the local retailer. Some even pay the retailer for the priviledge.

Local retailers earn their higher prices by delivering service (or at least they should)
A local dealer sho has provided presale service has made an investment, and deserves, and needs to realize some compensation for such.

There are a fair number of people who want to go "fondle" the goods at the local dealer and then buy on line. I get exactly such requests a couple time a week at least.

Some get mad as hornets when I explain to them that if they engage a DSS dealer we will refer the sale back to the dealer. That's only fair.


Tobin

May not be the best analogy, but the idea is the same. The business offers free admittance and even displays good to entice the customer to shop. And they have sales clerks (or owners/managers) who are there to encourage you and help you shop. Some will go so far as to offer free sample just to get you in the store shopping and have an opportunity to make a sale. If the business would really rather only engage customers who are there to buy, they should charge an entry fee, perhaps refundable with purchase. I doubt if this is where the LDS wants to go. But they will have to take some of the bad with the good or find a different business model.

I think the way you are aiding your dealers is excellent. But I did not realize that your online prices offered an advantage to customers over in-store prices. If it is not a pricing thing then perhaps it would be better for both dealer and customer satisfaction if you completed the sale and gave appropriate credit back to the original dealer.

 

[cool_hardware52]

May not be the best analogy, but the idea is the same. The business offers free admittance and even displays good to entice the customer to shop. And they have sales clerks (or owners/managers) who are there to encourage you and help you shop. Some will go so far as to offer free sample just to get you in the store shopping and have an opportunity to make a sale. If the business would really rather only engage customers who are there to buy, they should charge an entry fee, perhaps refundable with purchase. I doubt if this is where the LDS wants to go. But they will have to take some of the bad with the good or find a different business model.

Allowing a customer to browse is one thing, helping them measure and fit gear is another, as in most things it's a matter of degree. There is of course no perfect solution, almost all promotional efforts have an uncertain return, ads, freebies, etc.

I think the way you are aiding your dealers is excellent. But I did not realize that your online prices offered an advantage to customers over in-store prices.

When did I say anything about pricing? My dealers set their own prices. Might be the same as our online prices, might higher, might be lower. They might put together a package that includes our gear. The point is it's their business how they set their prices. We simply try to avoid competing for the same sale.

There's any number of reasons other than price that motivates people to try and buy direct. Some don't want to leave a deposit, and then have to return to pickup the goods, if they weren't in stock. With the variety of combinations we currently offer, i.e. 9 backplates, 10 different wings and two harnesses, weight plates etc. it can be difficult to stock everything.

In my experience there are two major types of buyers; those who want to see and touch and try out the gear, and want a local guy to beat over the head if there's a problem, and those who are willing to buy sight unseen, based either on the recommendation of others (SB etc) or have confidence in their ability to interpret and analyze the information available.

Most people aren't fixed in one group or the other, often the item being purchased determines the preference, i.e they might buy books on line, but always try on clothes.

The problem arises when somebody in the first group wants the benefits of a local reseller, and pricing or availability or tech support typical of the second.

Tobin

 

[roakey]

I want to know how it is justified to go to your local dive store and tie up their employees time to get educated on a product, try it on or operate it and then go home and look for the best price on the internet.

It's not justified. I for one (and I'm not alone) will buy locally if I need to "touch and feel" a product. Otherwise, I'll get it the cheapest way possible.

However, your question does show that you're missing a critical point: The retail stores have a hard time competing with internet sales because many of the manufacturers allow their products to "leak" into US distribution channels (via Europe, whatever) at a reduced price. THAT'S why your local retail store can't come close to some internet prices. If the manufacturers stop backstabbing their retail stores (at the same time telling them to "stay the course" to borrow a phrase) THEN your LDS will be able to come close (maybe not match, but come close) to a huge internet retailer, and make up the difference in service.

Just like the local photography store that still survives in this day and age.

However, when a TUSA mask is $40 online and $110 at my LDS, no amount of service can make up the delta.

Roak