Major Industry Change re: Online Scuba Sales....

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I know you think it won't, but as sure as the sun comes up in the morning, the wholesale price will change.

What will happen is a bunch of big dealers will get together and say "We'll pay x for this, or we'll buy a different product line." The manufacturer will say "OK", because if they don't they'll lose a huge portion of their business, lose their economy of scale and then make less on what they sell to the remaining dealers.

Whatever happens to the dealers happens to the distributors and manufacturers. I've seen it before. And I'll see it again.

The only way out for the manufacturer is to have a best-in-class product and hold the line on pricing.

Terry


mdb:
The wholesale price will not change. The retail mark up will decrease. Dealers will have to work on 42% + margins instead of 50-65% GM'S. Within a year or less all major companies will allow e-commerce. Many will have MAP programs, some will enforce them some will not.
 
Web Monkey:
It's a limited market. Even doubling the volume wouldn't make up for losing the space between MSRP and cost.
Terry

All markets are limited. That's defeatist talk that will fail, the free market economy does not owe or entitle anyone anything. Maintaining things as they used to be is not an alternative on the board.

PADI is telling it's dealers to adapt or die. Yesterday's model is not going to work in tomorrow's world. You can cry, whine, moan, lament, pontificate, make excuses, or whatever. It isn't going to change the reality.
 
Web Monkey:
It's a limited market. Even doubling the volume wouldn't make up for losing the space between MSRP and cost.

I'm sure you are mostly right on this. Mfgrs may have to do some wholesale price restructuring if they want to keep some of their smaller outlets viable. Casualties at the retail end will ultimately have to make up for the reduction in profit margins. Areas that are supporting only one shop may be in trouble. Areas with a couple shop will see a reduction in the number of shops and the stronger manufacturers may have some opportunities for local dominance. Larger markets may end up with almost everyone better off as the weaker shops get out of the way of the stronger ones. Guys like Phil and Larry have a big head start. Others will either have to get going and find their market niche or ....
 
Web Monkey:
I know you think it won't, but as sure as the sun comes up in the morning, the wholesale price will change.

What will happen is a bunch of big dealers will get together and say "We'll pay x for this, or we'll buy a different product line." The manufacturer will say "OK", because if they don't they'll lose a huge portion of their business, lose their economy of scale and then make less on what they sell to the remaining dealers.

Whatever happens to the dealers happens to the distributors and manufacturers. I've seen it before. And I'll see it again.

The only way out for the manufacturer is to have a best-in-class product and hold the line on pricing.

Terry

Terry: Been there and done that. Anyone that has worked with Sears, Wal-mart etc knows the drill. You are correct, those who have a best of class product, be it regs, masks, fins, computers, whatever will hold the wholesale price. The "me too's" will get crunched and lower pricing. The retailer will take the first hit.
 
I am reading this discussion and much of it is amazing. The side discussions about what might, or would, or could happen is great reading. But, we should instead concentrate of the possible GOOD outcome of a mass business model change in the scuba industry.

Our wonderful sport, scuba diving, has managed to attract FAR LESS THAN 1% of the adult population as participants. Viewing the scuba market as a FIXED and LIMITED market makes no sense when you consider this small population penetration. Try a little experiement...............

At your next dinner party or social gathering, start a discussion about scuba diving with people that have never had the pleasure to participate. You will get responses like..."god, I have always wanted to try that", "that sounds like so much fun", "we went snorkeling two years ago on our Bahamas cruise....I would love to try diving".

There must be a simple reason why so many people would love to try scuba diving, but so few actually do it. Here is my idea, based on my learnings about economics and markets, and my understanding of the growing value of time to the average person.

ANYONE who has taken Economics 101 will remember a simple adage...........as the cost of participation goes down, participation will go up. Put in purely economic terms, at $100 per widget, sales will be x.....cut the price by 50% and sales will increase MUCH higher than 50%. I think the extremely high entry cost of our sport keeps millions and millions of people out of scuba diving. Since we changed our business model and lowered the price of everything in our store, we have seen gigantic increases in the number of people coming in to learn to scuba dive. We offer a $99 open water tuition certificate at Christmas every year. It can be used anytime, for any scheduled class in the next year. We nearly pre-sale EVERY AVAILABLE SPOT in our classes for the following year. We benefit greatly from the increased equipment sales that come naturally with more new divers. At the standard tutition of $200, we could not do that. If you lower the cost of participation, sales will increase. We have also lowered the price of all of the necessary scuba equipment. Prior to our business model change, the entry cost for personal equipment (mask, fins, boot, snorkel, and weights) was $400 to $500. Now it averages around $250. More people will take lessions because the lower prices allows more people to participate. Simple economics.

We also charge a much too high price in terms of our customers time. Time is valuable to them. Most people (not those of us on these boards......we are mostly die hard divers) simply want to learn the skills necessary to dive safely, with a dive master, on the annual trip to Cancun. If the training cost in terms of time is several evenings a week for several weeks, people with think it "too expensive". If it can be learned in a weekend, they are more willing to give it a try, because the "cost" in terms of time is lower. (now, let's not let this degenerate into how much time you or I think should be devoted to good training. That doesn't matter. What matters is what the customer thinks is appropriate). As the cost goes down (this time cost is time), participation goes up.

Our industry has two MAJOR economic problems.......the equipment is too expensive and the time it takes to learn to dive is too long. Very simple. (these aren't our only problems, just two big ones). Simple, elementary economics education will prescribe what will happen if you correct these two problems. Sales (participation) will go up and the market will expand. ANYTHING that corrects these two problems will result in more participation. More participation will result in more sales. More sales will result in lower prices again. And the cycle continues.

Now, we have one more major problem. Our retail stores (if this doesn't apply to your store, just ignore the paragraph) look like junk piles. They are full of last years merchandise, poorly displayed, poorly maintained, and the whole operation runs more like a yard sale than a retail store. I know this sounds strong, but take a look around. Compare it to the cell phone store, or the local department store, or (closer to home) the local ski pro shop. The new customers that finally get up the nerve to come in are mostly shocked to death. They weren't expecting this. We also treat the scuba retail store like a clubhouse. We have made our sport too much of an "insiders game". While this might be great for those of us who love hanging around the scuba store for a chat, it may not look so good to the new customer entering the store for the first time.

So, what does the internet and PADI's "new" stance have to do with this? It's really simple. To run an internet store and a brick and mortar operation, you must get fairly organized. This alone will do a lot to "spiff" up the image of the local scuba store. Prices will surely go down when you start an internet store. After all, one of the cornerstones of the business model is lower prices and larger volume. Improving the image of the local scuba store, lowering prices and streamlining the training process will give us an opportunity to expand the market. Remember, ALMOST ALL of the population has not yet tried scuba diving! There is a lot of room for expansion of this market.

Concentrate on more than one thing at a time. Don't only view the internet as something that lowers your markup. You must also view it as something the expands your market and levels your cash flow (a MAJOR problem for the average scuba store). IT IS POSSIBLE to do both at once. Will this save all of the local dive stores? NOT A CHANCE. But unfortunately, many of them are already dead men walking. If ever there was a herd that needed a little thinning, this certainly is one. The trick is to be ONE OF THE SURVIVORS!

Remember, this CANNOT be viewed as a fixed, finate market. There is lots of room for expansion. Anyway, just my opinion.

Phil Ellis
 
Man, well said Phil, your voice matters. PADI's listening...
 
Want to note that mentioned here several times is the lack of LDS in the near vicinity. I have three scuba shops near me...all about 70 miles away. A long trip BUT I would not want to order some things online...tank, weights, want to try gear, hard to do on the internet... I also liked when I was job hunting, going into "local" dive shops and finding out about the area, etc. from the people hanging out there (the one in Hendersonville, NC was great!!). So that is not necessarily a turn-off for "newcomers".
 
PhilEllis:
Our industry has two MAJOR economic problems.......the equipment is too expensive and the time it takes to learn to dive is too long.


I wouldn't be surprised if the agencies change the time to learn to dive. Several years ago they went from a long multi-week class to a class that could be done in two weekends (and some home study/reading).

I expect that someone will come out with a 1 weekend certification course soon. (not that I agree with this is the best way to train students, but like how agencies changed to follow the others to the 2 weekend format, they will change to follow this also.

I expect to see a format something like this:
Before class - home study, reading, watch DVD.
Thursday night - classroom at LDS
Friday night - first pool session, maybe short 1 hour classroom session
Saturday morning - 2nd pool session
Saturday afternoon - first two open water dives in local quarry, spring, ocean, etc.
Sunday morning - 2nd two open water dives (3rd if needed).

Just wait, it'll happen. It might not be PADI. It might not be this year. But it will happen. (I'm not arguing that we need it this way, but that it's just inevitable.)
 
ReefHound:
You assume that a realistic alternative is to maintain the status quo and maintain current sales volume and profit.

Nope...

I'm just saying it's not that simple.

You'll end up with "those that will and those that won't"

Those that WILL will end up at Leisure Pro and WalMart and those that WON'T will still be sold at the LDS and authorized on-line dealers (ok, and your "better" unauthorized on-line dealers.)

Granted, there will be fewer LDS and more authorized on-line dealers. But the manufacturers that don't keep control of the retail pricing of their products do so at their own peril.

As a buyer of scuba gear I'm not saying I like this, but as a marketer I'm saying it's the reality of the situation.
 

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