Major Industry Change re: Online Scuba Sales....

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

PhilEllis:
Here is my idea, based on my learnings about economics and markets, and my understanding of the growing value of time to the average person.

ANYONE who has taken Economics 101 will remember a simple adage...........as the cost of participation goes down, participation will go up. Put in purely economic terms, at $100 per widget, sales will be x.....cut the price by 50% and sales will increase MUCH higher than 50%.

Phil, directionally you've got the idea captured, but quantitatively you couldn't be more wrong.

Price elasticity theory does say that there is a correlation between price and volume, and that correlation is generally a positive one. However ANYONE that has actually done price elasticity studies on real product in the real world with real customers will tell you that there is never a case where price is the sole purchasing criteria. Further, price/volume function is also rarely linear, regardless of the absolute impact of price on volume.

You don't REALLY think that price is the only thing keeping more people from diving do you? If you do you're deluded by what those of us who have not only taken lots of 101 classes but now actually do marketing for a living call "Self Reference Criteria" - the hugely incorrect belief that "my potential customers are exactly like my current customers with the one exception of ______." Here, you are filling in that blank with price sensitivity.


PhilEllis:
At your next dinner party or social gathering, start a discussion about scuba diving with people that have never had the pleasure to participate. You will get responses like..."god, I have always wanted to try that", "that sounds like so much fun", "we went snorkeling two years ago on our Bahamas cruise....I would love to try diving".

There must be a simple reason why so many people would love to try scuba diving, but so few actually do it. Here is my idea, based on my learnings about economics and markets, and my understanding of the growing value of time to the average person.

At your dinner party, you're also just as likely to hear "I would never go diving in a million years - not even if you paid me!"

For the vast majority of people who do NOT dive, the thing that keeps them from diving is NOT price. Rather the thing that keeps them from diving is a lack of desire to dive. Or in many cases a specific desire to NOT dive. Cut the price to ZERO and there will still be people who won't go diving.

If I had to guess I'd say that price elasticity for scuba diving is ABSOLUTELY BEST CASE about a 10:1 correlation. Every 10% you cut price you get about a 1% increase in participation volume. So cut price 50% and you'll get a 5% increase in participation. Why? Because lowering the price does not remove the actual barrier - a lack of desire to dive in and of itself.

The approach you are espousing will surely doom the industry to selling a marginally higher volume of products to a marginally larger pool of customers at a hugely lower profit margin.

I do a agree with you that SCUBA would benefit from a better marketing approach to attract non-divers to this great sport, but cutting the price ain't gonna do it.
 
RJP:
Price elasticity theory does say that there is a correlation between price and volume, and that correlation is generally a positive one. However ANYONE that has actually done price elasticity studies on real product in the real world with real customers will tell you that there is never a case where price is the sole purchasing criteria. Further, price/volume function is also rarely linear, regardless of the absolute impact of price on volume.

RJP, thanks for participating in this thread. We need input from people, like you, who are educated professionals in the marketing dynamics that effect our business. I can't think of any industry that is more in need of an educated, rational approach to marketing than this industry. I also fully understand that I cannot fully appreciate the full dynamics of the market forces that will impact us. I can only speak as a lay retailer, but one with some considerable understanding of how our industry works.

RJP:
You don't REALLY think that price is the only thing keeping more people from diving do you? If you do you're deluded by what those of us who have not only taken lots of 101 classes but now actually do marketing for a living call "Self Reference Criteria" - the hugely incorrect belief that "my potential customers are exactly like my current customers with the one exception of ______." Here, you are filling in that blank with price sensitivity.

I never stated (at least I didn't mean to state) that price sensitivity was the only thing keeping participation in scuba diving down. There are many of them. But price is one of them. Look closely at the posts on this very message board. There is an amazing belief among consumers that they are being taken for a ride with regard to price. Most of the people that steadfastly adhere to the "local scuba store at any cost" purchasing mantra will acknowledge that even they are over paying. Dissatisfaction with the distribution of scuba equipment is rampant.

The current "high retail cost, low volume, small market" approach used by many scuba stores results in stagnant sales from year to year, even while the fixed and variable costs of operating a retail store continue to climb out of sight. The variety of products (brands) available to a given consumer who chooses to shop in a local scuba store, is extremely limited. After reading about all of the variety of brands and models of gear on the market in Scuba Diving magazine, or after getting expert advice here on scuba board, the consumer walks into a store, largely stocked with last years merchandise, available in sometimes only one brand name. Consumers are too educated for this. They have done their research and have decided what they want. Unless embued with considerable luck (they actually want what the local store sells), their needs cannot be met from the capabilities of the local scuba store. Far from attracting participation, this aspect alone drives them away.

The internet retail model gives a retailer an opportunity to expand sales through the expansion of their own market (going national or international instead of staying "neighborhood" focused). This generates considerably higher sales. The higher sales enhance their ability to expand their offerings into other brands. Their inventory width and depth expands. As a result, walk in customers are more likely to see, in the store, the same things they read about in the magazines and hear about on scuba board. This results in better opportunities to satisfy the walk-in customer and it results in higher local sales. Lowering the cost threshold for scuba classes (both in terms of absolute dollars and time investment) increases the number of entry level scuba students.....the very participants that are likely to result in the largest dollar volume of local sales. With the current conversion rate ( industry wide) of new students into completely geared scuba divers, it only takes a few additional new divers to create a considerable increase in retail sales. I agree, price is not the only problem we have. But it is a gigantic one.....one that is keeping participation down and that is preventing the local scuba store from offering the variety of goods necessary for success.

RJP:
At your dinner party, you're also just as likely to hear "I would never go diving in a million years - not even if you paid me!"

For the vast majority of people who do NOT dive, the thing that keeps them from diving is NOT price. Rather the thing that keeps them from diving is a lack of desire to dive. Or in many cases a specific desire to NOT dive. Cut the price to ZERO and there will still be people who won't go diving.

I agree completely. Pardon me if I left the wrong impression. I didn't mean to imply that at the right price, EVERYONE would dive. Probably over 80% of the population wouldn't dive if it was FREE! But, the 20% that are left, those that might be potential targets were the cost in time and money to be reduced, would represent a 25 or 30 or 40 fold increase, over current levels of participation. This would be gigantic for the local retailer. However, the fact remains.....the local retailer cannot reduce the price and expand the retail offerings......under the current system. Short of possessing a vast fortune they are willing to throw to the wind, there simply isn't the economic power with the current limited sales.

RJP:
If I had to guess I'd say that price elasticity for scuba diving is ABSOLUTELY BEST CASE about a 10:1 correlation. Every 10% you cut price you get about a 1% increase in participation volume. So cut price 50% and you'll get a 5% increase in participation. Why? Because lowering the price does not remove the actual barrier - a lack of desire to dive in and of itself.

I know little about the technical aspects of price elasticity. I agree, if we are talking about cutting the price and nothing more, it is a bad trade off. But here I am talking about cutting the cost of participation in order to expand into the MUCH LARGER MARKET available to scuba internet sales operations (by the way...in our industry..... it appears that reducing price is an essential element to being competitive in the internet retail scuba business). There are a number of REAL case studies of local stores that have already done this....they are right here, participants on this very message board, and willing to share experiences with any that will listen. I would venture to guess that most have experienced 100%, 500%, 1000%, and several even larger increases in sales volume in just a few years......totally as a result in a change of business model that involves decreasing retail prices (by 15% to 35%) to be more cost competitive and doing the other things (widen inventory offerings, improved business systems, advertising) necessary to operate an internet retail store.

RJP:
The approach you are espousing will surely doom the industry to selling a marginally higher volume of products to a marginally larger pool of customers at a hugely lower profit margin.

God, I hope you are wrong. Because this is where we are going.......kicking and screaming all the way. I also realize that this change in business model, when implemented, will mean fewer stores operating under this model. It is plain and simple....there are too many scuba stores for the current number of participants. I expect contraction (considerable contraction) in the number of retail outlets.

RJP:
I do a agree with you that SCUBA would benefit from a better marketing approach to attract non-divers to this great sport,.............

Amen brother, Amen!

Phil Ellis
 
PhilEllis:
Look closely at the posts on this very message board. There is an amazing belief among consumers that they are being taken for a ride with regard to price. Most of the people that steadfastly adhere to the "local scuba store at any cost" purchasing mantra will acknowledge that even they are over paying. Dissatisfaction with the distribution of scuba equipment is rampant.

Perhaps, but again this is among CURRENT divers. The prospective diver has no frame of reference for "LDS vs web" and therefor no frame of reference for cost vs value. These are the ideal customers because the oportunity is to creat demand, not reduce barriers to purchase.

The scuba industry - both manufacturers and retailers - is a classic if not apt example of "Red Ocean" strategy, where firms competing head-on results in nothing but a bloody “red ocean” of rivals fighting over a shrinking profit pool.

Pick up a copy of Kim and Mauborgne's book "Blue Ocean Strategy" to understand what the scuba industry needs to do. Based on a study of 150 strategic moves spanning more than a hundred years and thirty industries, Kim and Mauborgne argue that tomorrow’s leading companies will succeed not by battling competitors, but by creating “blue oceans” of uncontested market space ripe for growth. Such strategic moves—termed “value innovation”—create powerful leaps in value for both the firm and its buyers, rendering rivals obsolete and unleashing new demand.

I'll email you a great HBR article on the subject - I think you'll find it quite interesting.
 
PhilEllis:
I agree, if we are talking about cutting the price and nothing more, it is a bad trade off. But here I am talking about cutting the cost of participation in order to expand into the MUCH LARGER MARKET available to scuba internet sales operations (by the way...in our industry..... it appears that reducing price is an essential element to being competitive in the internet retail scuba business).

Remember, we are really not talking about cutting the price. We are really talking about MATCHING the price that other retailers are asking. If everyone were selling the item for X, this would not be an issue.
 
RJP:
Kim and Mauborgne argue that tomorrow’s leading companies will succeed not by battling competitors, but by creating “blue oceans” of uncontested market space ripe for growth. Such strategic moves—termed “value innovation”—create powerful leaps in value for both the firm and its buyers, rendering rivals obsolete and unleashing new demand.

I think I found that blue ocean. Is it called ebay?
 
RJP:
Perhaps, but again this is among CURRENT divers. The prospective diver has no frame of reference for "LDS vs web" and therefor no frame of reference for cost vs value. These are the ideal customers because the oportunity is to creat demand, not reduce barriers to purchase.

Let me post my story for reference. I am now a CURRENT diver but not too long ago I was the prospective diver. Before I ever signed up for my class at the LDS I started doing my research to figure out all the things I needed to buy for my new found hobby. It became obvious right away the the difference in price for the exact same things at my LDS verses online vendors was huge. In fact at the prices my LDS was quoting it was completely out of my budget. Never the less I started the class anyway thinking that once I get into this I can wheel and deal with them to get where I need to be on pricing. I wanted to learn to dive all my life and this was it. I was going to make it happen.

Guess what? I never did get the LDS to cut me a deal. They offered 10% for current students and would work up a special package for 15% I tried to start the bargaining conversation several times but thats the best they would do. (BTW this is for two divers, my son and I got certified together) I finally wound up buying from ScubaToys two complete packages for less than the LDS's 15% off package price for one.

My wife will be getting certified in the spring and I am currently shopping for her gear. So far I haven't had much luck with the LDS's and christmas is just around the corner. Guess where I'll probably wind up buying her gear?
 
This has been a great thread, with lots of great points.

One of my relatives was a very promising architech, of the pencil and drafting board school. When blueprints were starting to be drafted by computers, he resisted, and did not make the conversion, preffering his drafting board over the PC. He now hands out free food samples at a BJ's warehouse in Long Island.

The market will change. Period. You can either embrace it, or resist it, and end up in the cold.

I can buy any piece of electronics gear from a huge variety of websites for rock bottom prices, but I cant throw a rock in my city without hitting a Brands-Mart, Best Buy or Circut City. Maybe they aren't mom and pop stores, but certianly, they can compete with the online stores. IMHO, I think this is becasue some consumers will always want to touch and feel a procuct before buying it.

Dive stores will have to adopt. I have said this many times before on SB - most of you know the site www.diveriteexpress.com. Mark the owner has a very lucrative business with an online store as well as a retail store.

It can be done, it just requires you to keep up with the times and change your business plan.
 
Tienuts:
The market will change. Period. You can either embrace it, or resist it, and end up in the cold.

. . .
Dive stores will have to adopt. I have said this many times before on SB - most of you know the site www.diveriteexpress.com. Mark the owner has a very lucrative business with an online store as well as a retail store.

It can be done, it just requires you to keep up with the times and change your business plan.
I think what you're missing is that once the mass-marketers get into SCUBA, there will be nothing to adapt to.

ScubaToys and DiveRiteExpress are both nice businesses, but can't compete with a real mass marketer any more than a man with a shovel could compete with the machine that dug the tunnel between France and England.

Online stores for small SCUBA shops are only a temporary reprieve where they can currently pick up a little extra business. It's not the end of the line, and small internet shops will not survive once really big players hit the market.

The only way to survive is for the top-shelf manufacturers to hold the line on pricing and distribution. Otherwise, at least 3/4 of manufacturers and dealers and pretty much all of the distributors are doomed.

It's happened several times before in various markets, and is happening again. I'm still amazed at how easy it is for an entire industry to ignore history.


Terry
 
Web Monkey:
ScubaToys and DiveRiteExpress are both nice businesses, but can't compete with a real mass marketer any more than a man with a shovel could compete with the machine that dug the tunnel between France and England.

Terry

I agree in part, disagree in part. With respect to LDSs that are also online, such as Scubatoys and DiveRiteExpress, there are enough dive fanatics out there who truly want to support businesses such as these, even if they don't want to support their local LDS because of bad experiences. If I can't get what I want at my LDS, businesses like Scubatoys or DiveRiteExpress are always my next choice. I only buy from LP or Scuba.com if I can't find what I want elsewhere. The vacation diver might not care where they buy from as long as the get the cheapest price, but my opinion is that the average diver (not people who only dive on vacation) realize the situation the industry is facing. Larry doesn't need to match LP.com price in order to get the sale, only come reasonably close. Myself, and many others, will pay a little extra to support an online LDS. As long as these Online LDS make an effort, I don't see them having a problem with the real mass marketers.
 
"It's never too late to close the Barn Door"- PADI

:D

I would have to say that SDI has taken the leading role for use of the internet by an agency. NAUI is now following in their footsteps but it almost always is the lead dog.

As for the internet... those who think it's just a passing fad will go the way of the dinosaur! Extinction is for those who just can't cope.
 

Back
Top Bottom