Magic filters?

[RonFrank]

The Magic Filter is not simply a Color Compensating or Color Conversion Filter like a URPro or Kodak Wratten Gel. There is a white balance conversion that allows you to get a broader tonality and color range out of your digital camera than either of those two options can offer.

Please explain this statement. After years of printing color, and dialing in my own settings on an enlarger how is this filter anything other than a colored piece of gel that adds or subtracts red, green, or blue light in various amounts?

WB is a function of the camera, no? Color temp is measured and set by the camera based on a given white point in the case of the custom setting user controlled. WB in fact IS one of the most powerful filters ever provided to the photographer as it will change the color temp and adjust channels for a given lightsource within it's range. Adding a red type of filter can extend the red range assuming the range is outside of the capability of the camera. On the flip side it could also prevent the camera from accurately recording color which is exactly what would happen if one adds flash as a primay light source.

Any filter one puts on the camera will impact that custom WB setting. Is this filter Photochromic because THAT would be very interesting. I'm betting for the price it is not.

I tend to question things, and while I'm sure this filter works, I'm unclear how it is somehow superior to other color compensating filters. I'm very sure that any manufacture of UW filters would make a claim for suprior results using their product

I certainly HOPE that you don't feel I've provided misinformation as I HATE that about the net. So feel free to correct anything I've stated that is incorrect.

reaffirming that there should be some law somewhere that people actually use something before they comment on it...

I've been using filters in color and B&W print enlargements, and on camera for about 25 years. I guess that experience does not count as I've not used THIS filter? It's a color gel filter, no? If your comments are aimed at my responses on the thread, please provide a bit more detail than "a lot of misinformation" and "white balance conversion" as that is about as misinformative as anything anybody has said on this thread.

Cheers,

 

[mjh]

Ask and you shall receive, to a degree.

Here are photos taken with the Magic Filter & URPRO CY filters. Not a straight head to head as taken with different lenses or totally same water conditions. When I was using the URPRO there was more “mung” in the water. I did not “set” the WB just put it on Auto.


1st Shot Edited in CS2 Raw
Magic Filter ISO 200, 1/125, F.4, 17-35@35
2nd Shot unedited

3rd Shot edited
CYPRO ISO 200, 1/125, F.5, 12-24@18
4th shot unedited (just in CS2 Raw)

Sorry about the order.

One thing I did notice with the CYPRO was it should very red with the white “mung” in the water. With it I was cooling off the photo with the Magic filter warming up.

 

[dbh]

Ron,

I think the point is: You have not tried the Magic Filter (or any other filter) underwater so you cannot say X filter is just as good, based on your topside use.

MOST underwater photographers that I dive with don't use a 12-24 anymore. They are all shooting Nikon 10.5mm or Sigma 15mm. I wasn't happy with with my 12-24 underwater (part of it could be my skill level). I sold it and got a Sigma 15mm (for about 1/3 of the cost). With the FE lenses, you have to use a rear mounted filter.

I have no stake in Magic Filters. I also think the price of them is a drop in the bucket compared to the other gear that I have.

YMMV,
Dave

 

[RonFrank]

Ron,

I think the point is: You have not tried the Magic Filter (or any other filter) underwater so you cannot say X filter is just as good, based on your topside use.

Point made, however my comments on the UR Pro filters came from Alex Mustard:

"UR Pro's filters are designed specifically to counteract the filtering effedct of seawater and work very well. They are an excellent choice for videographers and work over a wider depth range..... Frustratingly, for the still photographer UR Pro filets are only availalbe as glass or thick optical plastic..."

Do you think that UW is the only place where light sources vary, and color temperture varies? I have enough experience using filters to say that one orange filter is going to behave very much like another orange filter of similar density, and color, and both manufactures will say theirs is better in most cases.

Look at the filters in this URL.

http://www.magic-filters.com/download/UWP26a.pdf

The magic filter is almost EXACTLY the same color as the UR Pro fileter...

The original poster indicated that he thought these were expensive for gels, and I agree. I also provided some alternatives. I am not saying that they all will work as well as the magic filters. However given the various lighting conditions UW, along with the many factors involved I would suggest that no ONE filter is going to be best for all types of conditions. I can make the same comments when shooting under various light sources using daylight film.

Ironically how well the filters work is a direct result of WB, and will also be influenced by how each camera handles setting the WB. Canon and Nikon do NOT use the same WB algorithim even if the end goal is the same. The camera manufacture and model can influence how a filter performs. In addition what is used as a calibration tool will influence the WB as well.

I don't have to go UW with a camera to state these facts. If you think this is incorrect, you are certainly free to debate them.

MOST underwater photographers that I dive with don't use a 12-24 anymore. They are all shooting Nikon 10.5mm or Sigma 15mm. I wasn't happy with with my 12-24 underwater (part of it could be my skill level). I sold it and got a Sigma 15mm (for about 1/3 of the cost). With the FE lenses, you have to use a rear mounted filter.

I have no stake in Magic Filters. I also think the price of them is a drop in the bucket compared to the other gear that I have.

YMMV,
Dave

Why oh why would you trade a 12-24mm for the 15mm fisheye that becomes a rather not so wide 22mm fisheye. :11doh: I suppose I could understand getting the 10.5mm, but not in place of the 12-24mm, rather in addition. I guess if you have no interest in topside photography, MAYBE the 10.5mm as an only WA lens would work, but then again, it is a rather limited lens.

Living in Colorado unfortunately I don't get to do the UW photography I would like, so a lot of my comments on UW photography are based on knowledge of photography. My first attempts with a PnS camera UW solidified my belief that outside of the diving aspect, usinig a camera UW takes the exact same skills as topside. Try balancing mecury lighting against flash using film, and you can start to understand that UW lighting conditions are just a different set of lighting challanges.

 

[pablovi]

Yes Mike sort of true....

But.... adding the filter helps out quite a bit especially below 10 feet. if you don't add that red back in you are really pushing the limits of the camera and you will find the resulting image really starts to degrade and gains lots of noise. By adding the filter you help the camera out and retain image quality.

You're right, that's exactly what it does. A white balance requires every colour of the light to be present to achive good results, at depth red is non existant, and the camera can't compensate if the colour is not there, have you ever tried to do a white balance white a mercury vapor light? it doesn't give good results, that's the same thing as underwater. So all you need to do is correct the light source just enough so it can do an acceptable white balance. That's why it doesn't work on film. On film you still need to use Color correcting filters, or the "special" underwater ones. The CC filter you use is determined by Depth on film, but I don't think you can change a filter underwater, so you need to plan your dives at one depth and stick to it or do a lot of photoshop.

I have yet to see the technical data of the Magic Filter, but from what it looks to me, you can use an 85B gelatine filter and have the same effect.

 

[Cacia]

holy crap, mjh, hope you were in a cage.