Low profile octo recommendation?

[ams511]

While on a dive I breathed off my buddy's octo which was a low-profile Aqualung one. It sucked. It was no where near as smooth as my Apeks and we were in only about 25 feet of water. If you buy an adjustable regulator then you can detune it yourself by using the adjusting knob. You can get an adjustable Hog second stage for $110 or a Dive Rite one for $150. You can get an new non-adjustable Dive Rite octo from NESS for $50. You could also pick up a used second stage off of ebay. What is the brand of your wife's primary?

 

[mbs]

Its a Mares.. I just don't get why a low profile would necessarily be a bad breather.

While on a dive I breathed off my buddy's octo which was a low-profile Aqualung one. It sucked. It was no where near as smooth as my Apeks and we were in only about 25 feet of water. If you buy an adjustable regulator then you can detune it yourself by using the adjusting knob. You can get an adjustable Hog second stage for $110 or a Dive Rite one for $150. You can get an new non-adjustable Dive Rite octo from NESS for $50. You could also pick up a used second stage off of ebay. What is the brand of your wife's primary?

 

[milbournosphere]

I wouldn't say it's a bad breather, per se...it's just not a fantastic breather; I do feel a slight difference between my primary and the Mares. I'm a rec diver, and I'm pretty happy with the MV overall, for my typical beach and boat dives. If I start doing more 100ft+ dives and get Nitrox certified, however, I'll probably upgrade for peace of mind; until then, I'm happy with my MV.

 

[ams511]

Its a Mares.. I just don't get why a low profile would necessarily be a bad breather.

Think about it. If a low profile design was good for breathing then primary regs would also be designed that way. If I had to guess I would have to say that a conventional design is more efficient because you are inhaling perpendicular to the diaphragm as opposed to a puck where you are inhaling parallel to the diaphragm. The movement of the diaphragm moves the lever and controls the air delivery. This is only my theory nothing more.

Also my perception of it sucking could be due to the regulator I was using. On that dive I was using Apeks TX100 with a TX50 Octo, it is one of the better breathing regulators on the market. An Aqualung puck octo cannot compete.

Personally, I don't understand what the advantage is of a low profile octo. It does not cut down significantly on drag and I don't see the upside-down breathing being a big advantage. If it was then more people would be diving Poseidon regulators. Take a look as some of the regulator videos Dive Rite posts on YouTube. You may like the configuration they advocate.

---------- Post added March 13th, 2013 at 03:21 PM ----------

Octo/inflator == runflattire

cheap/slim octo == mini spare

std primary reg == full spare

​

I disagree with this analogy. You should look at what regulator the diver in trouble gets. If you carry on octo inflator she gets the primary reg while the donating diver breathes of the inflator. I know some people don't understand this but that is how you air share with an inflator. If you carry an octo as good as your primary the out of air diver gets a reg equivalent to your primary. If you use a cheap/slim octo well the out of air diver gets a lower quality octo. To me, this is the worst scenario.

 

[PeterNBiddle]

Think about it. If a low profile design was good for breathing then primary regs would also be designed that way.

This logic never holds up. If cars were safer with airbags then Detroit wouldn't have fought them for 20 years... Only they did. Because they didn't want to take on the cost, not because they weren't better.

There are many reasons that better solutions don't catch on.

Whether or not low profile is better is a separate question.

 

[Damselfish]

I think the upside-down breathing is the main advantage of a low-profile type octo. We have Apeks Egress and are pretty happy with them for their purpose. Actually had some other slimlines in the past and they did kinda suck. Some are better than others.

 

[g1138]

The reason why primaries are not puck style is because bubbles exhaust right in front of your face. There is no exhaust tee to speak of which deflects bubbles to the side of the chin. Otherwise they are exactly the same as a regular second stage, and can be tuned to the exact same cracking pressure as well.

My experience with puck octos is the Aqualung ABS and the Mares MV. Absolutely hate the ABS. It's way to easy to be environmentally free flowed. One tumble into the sand or hit by a sandy wave and your octo free flows, sometimes uncontrollably. I've had to shut down more tanks to reset a freeflowing ABS than I've ever had to do with any other reg; octo or primary. And this has been with ABS octos from different shops, different rental fleets, different techs tuning them. So it's not an isolated incident in my mind.
Even the usual sloshing in sand free water doesn't always help. It's very temperamental.

I'm a fan of the Mares, breaths very nice for an octo. Can't complain other than the weird purge button and exhaust cover.

Purge button on the Mares MV is a flap of plastic. Not sure how that would hold up over a lifetime considering plastic breaks after repeated flexing.
The exhaust cover is a thin dome cover like that you see on snorkel purges (except the snorkel ones are a thicker plastic). Some in my shop's rental fleet have popped off (due to divers being harsh on the gear), but they snap back on easily. Because the Mare MV is pretty wide, your bubbles are exhausted to the side of your chin, so you don't really have that bubbles in the face problem like you would with the ABS or other puck styles like it.

Like I said though, nice breather; they can be tuned great.

 

[ti325v]

As an instructor, when not teaching I use an M.V. I use a shop reg when teaching.
Has about 3000 dives on it and works well. Beaten to near to death and nothing broken
Breathes a little wet, but otherwise it breathes fine.
The primary reason I use it is poor training...ever see a diver OOA and not stop to consider that the octopus they have grabbed is upside down ?
The fact that they get air, even if a bit wet is much better then a 50/50 chance of a lung full of water.
Would never go back.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

First of all I will say I began with a slimline octo. Oceanic. Worked fine for OOA drills until I stopped doing the "let the OOA diver grab for it and hope it works" type of reaction and went to the psychologically more beneficial "hand them a reg you and they both know works" type of response. The problem I often saw with the compact slimline type deals is that they were compact and slim. Sometimes on other divers so much so that they were hard to locate. A stressed diver seems to respond better to something that feels substantial. And I do not teach new divers to allow an OOA or LOA to grab for a reg. They are taught to donate the primary or octo. And for that reason I want a reg equal in performance to my primary. I might be the one using it. If not I want the OOA diver to have as much air as they need. Handing them a reg that breathes any less well than my primary is just going to add to their stress level. My slimline sits on a shelf. I never use it but I also refuse to sell it. I don't believe in passing something on that I myself do not believe in. And has already been stated, you can get a high performance second for just over a hundred bucks. What's your's or your loved one's life worth?

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Colliam7]

What you choose for an octo (I personally prefer 'alternate second stage'. 'Octo' seems to imply something different, which I don't personally agree with) is a matter of personal preference. Arguments are made for and against 'cheap', 'detuned', 'identical', 'streamlined', 'full size', 'compact', etc, etc.. But, I don't hear stories of divers regularly coming to grief because of the use of 'less than primary quality' alternate second stages. Having said that, like most I have MY preferences as well, which are probably evident in my comments, below.

should we expect an octo to breath as easily as a primary?

Yes! Why not?

Are they generally not detuned to avoid freeflows?

No! Why should they be? Some are, but I see that as a matter of ignorance as much as anything. I have used identical primary and alternate second stages for years, in warm water, cold water, calm water, current, shallow water and deep water, and have never had a problem with a freeflow. I see absolutely no reason to 'detune'. Keep the venturi control lever in pre-dive mode? Yes. Dial down the user-adjustable breathing control / inhalation effort knob? Yes. Those are quickly changed when the alternate becomes the primary. I can't 're-tune' in-water.

Lots of regs, primary or secondary breath differently.

Yes, and I want all my second stages to breath well, not just some of them

why not have a full spare if you have the option!

Exactly. And, why would you not have that option? Some might say 'cost', which I don't consider a valid argument. If the cost differential between a cheap octo and a 'full' alternate second stage is too much for someone to afford, they probably should pick another recreation.

Worked fine for OOA drills until I stopped doing the "let the OOA diver grab for it and hope it works" type of reaction and went to the psychologically more beneficial "hand them a reg you and they both know works" type of response. . . . And I do not teach new divers to allow an OOA or LOA to grab for a reg. They are taught to donate the primary or octo. And for that reason I want a reg equal in performance to my primary. I might be the one using it.

YES! Well-stated, Jim.

I dive with Zeagle ZX second stages. I dive with Apeks ATX/XTX 50, 100 and 200 second stages. All are user adjustable (venturi control and cracking effort). I dive with identical second stages on my primary hose and my necklace hose, on both posts when diving backmount, manifolded doubles, and both bottles when diving sidemount. If I have to donate, what's in my mouth is what I use. Since that is also what I breath from almost all the time (OOAs are uncommon), I want it to breath very well. And, in the event it gets kicked out of my mouth by another diver (more common, it seems, that OOAs) or I need to donate it, I want my alternate sitting right below my mouth, and I want it to breath just as well. One difference between me and Jim, though - my Egress sat on a shelf for 5 years, new-in-box, and I finally 'sold' it back to the shop.

I am curious, what is your fascination with a 'a low profile design'? To paraphrase the question, is there any reason to consider it?