Looking for new wing

[Eric Sedletzky]

I'm an Australian modifier of other peoples manufacture

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You’re actually a hell of a good metalsmith.

 

[Nemrod]

The original backplates from the late 90s and the early 00s did not have the slots for the cam bands cut into the plate. These were the true doubles plates. Consequently, an STA was needed to mount a single tank. I think only Light Monkey still uses that old design, but they are not a major player in the BP/W market.

When the industry discovered that if they cut slots in the plate and wing to run the cam bands through, then a STA is not necessary. When they added the rods to the wings it was marketed as a "built-in STA", presumably to communicate to divers the bolt-on bracket was no longer needed. I think the industry calls it roll control now.

Any plate that is designed with a central ridge for attachment of doubles bands and therefore perches the single tank on that center ridge several inches further from the body than would a flat singles plate is a doubles plate adapted to single tank use either by a STA or "roll control" tabs built into the wing. The cylinder is naturally unstable so perched or it would not need either roll control or a STA. It is compromise of one thing, a doubles plate intended to mount each cylinder close to the divers back, to a singles use by perching the tank atop that center ridge channel originally intended for attachment of doubles bands. The issue is still there, no matter a STA or roll control, the single cylinder is pushed away form the divers back and therefore to regain reach to the valve the cylinder is then hiked up behind the head. This ruins trim and increases the separation of the diver's CG and CB.

I pointed out that a center outlet may not interfere with the regulator on a doubles plate adapted to single tank use due to the tank therefore being hiked up behind the head and much further from the diver's back. However, a purpose built single tank flat plate most certainly would have interference of the center outlet and regulator first stage or at least be very crowded in that area.

And Eric , I have never heard of S-T-A being pronounced as stay. Do not tell Padi or it will become a Sta(y) Device. The plate you sent me so long ago, I use a cam band through the slots in the plate and wing direct to the tank on the top cam band. The lower cam band is under a small 1/2 inch block on the aft side of the Freedom Plate secured by a screw through the plate. This provides some lift to the tail of the tank to clear the derriere allowing the contoured Freedom Plate to nestle down into the arch of the lower back. And it is very comfortable. But in use, I just do not notice much difference between the VDH, Oxy and Freedom Plates for stability or comfort. I would use my Freedom Plate exclusively but it is stainless steel and too heavy for travel use. But I do use it exclusively for temperate water or when I can get to the dive site by Toyota. If it requires a BJA (big jet airplane device) then the Freedom Plate has to stay at home.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Eric,

The original backplates from the late 90s and the early 00s did not have the slots for the cam bands cut into the plate. These were the true doubles plates. Consequently, an STA was needed to mount a single tank. I think only Light Monkey still uses that old design, but they are not a major player in the BP/W market.

When the industry discovered that if they cut slots in the plate and wing to run the cam bands through, then a STA is not necessary. When they added the rods to the wings it was marketed as a "built-in STA", presumably to communicate to divers the bolt-on bracket was no longer needed. I think the industry calls it roll control now.

What your rulebook terms an STA is actually a misnomer also. If a modern plate can be used with a single tank then why is an adaptor needed? It should be termed tank bracket or any of the other names you mentioned. I assume it is still called an STA because that is what it always was called. Why change the name and confuse divers? By the way, Halcyon calls uses the term STA on their carbon fiber pro plate, so I am not the only one that uses that term. Take it up with JJ.

Speaking of terms, the use of the term "doubles plate" is misleading given that modern backplates can be used for both singles and doubles (except for Light Monkey). Also this term confused one of the participants of this thread. I never seen a modern plate marketed as a "doubles" plate it is just a backplate. I only heard the term "doubles" plate used on this thread, I understood what was meant but I have been diving since the early 90s, a newbie probably doesn't understand this term.

I understand the uniqueness of your plate is that it is designed as a singles-only plate to make single tank diving more comfortable. You can call the channel anything you want because you are the manufacturer, but I would caution you to pick a term the average diver would understand.

Have a great day and dive safe.

Calling everything a STA to me is more confusing than just calling what is actually a STA a STA, a bolt-on single tank adapter. I think it’s time to separate out what it actually is and not just use it as a blanket term for everything that is used to stabilize a tank.
Everything else is s tank stabilization system, whether it’s built into the design of the plate or part of the design of the wing. I don’t call roll control logs on a wing a “built in STA”, it’s not a STA!
And neither is a single tank stabilization design built into a plate. A STA also has cam band slots on the STA.
This is a STA:

 

[rhwestfall]

Just like in wings. It is "built in roll control"..

 

[Nemrod]

I'm an Australian modifier of other peoples manufacture

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That is interesting .

Why is there a pad between the plate and tank? I am not understanding?

The Freedom Plate is 3D, curved in all planes including the lower section which wraps around partially the divers lower back thus providing stability for the rig and diver comfort. I do not see the need for those lower side extensions in a 2D flat version of the Freedom Plate? Is that plate going to be bent into a curve?

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

That is interesting .

Why is there a pad between the plate and tank? I am not understanding?

The Freedom Plate is 3D, curved in all planes including the lower section which wraps around partially the divers lower back thus providing stability for the rig and diver comfort. I do not see the need for those lower side extensions in a 2D flat version of the Freedom Plate? Is that plate going to be bent into a curve?

He made a lead blanket that forms itself over the plate for added ballast. I’m telling you the guy is good.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Any plate that is designed with a central ridge for attachment of doubles bands and therefore perches the single tank on that center ridge several inches further from the body than would a flat singles plate is a doubles plate adapted to single tank use either by a STA or "roll control" tabs built into the wing. The cylinder is naturally unstable so perched or it would not need either roll control or a STA. It is compromise of one thing, a doubles plate intended to mount each cylinder close to the divers back, to a singles use by perching the tank atop that center ridge channel originally intended for attachment of doubles bands. The issue is still there, no matter a STA or roll control, the single cylinder is pushed away form the divers back and therefore to regain reach to the valve the cylinder is then hiked up behind the head. This ruins trim and increases the separation of the diver's CG and CB.

I pointed out that a center outlet may not interfere with the regulator on a doubles plate adapted to single tank use due to the tank therefore being hiked up behind the head and much further from the diver's back. However, a purpose built single tank flat plate most certainly would have interference of the center outlet and regulator first stage or at least be very crowded in that area.

And Eric , I have never heard of S-T-A being pronounced as stay. Do not tell Padi or it will become a Sta(y) Device. The plate you sent me so long ago, I use a cam band through the slots in the plate and wing direct to the tank on the top cam band. The lower cam band is under a small 1/2 inch block on the aft side of the Freedom Plate secured by a screw through the plate. This provides some lift to the tail of the tank to clear the derriere allowing the contoured Freedom Plate to nestle down into the arch of the lower back. And it is very comfortable. But in use, I just do not notice much difference between the VDH, Oxy and Freedom Plates for stability or comfort. I would use my Freedom Plate exclusively but it is stainless steel and too heavy for travel use. But I do use it exclusively for temperate water or when I can get to the dive site by Toyota. If it requires a BJA (big jet airplane device) then the Freedom Plate has to stay at home.

I just use “stay” because saying “es tee aye” takes more time plus you have to use an “an” before it which is one more letter to have to type, and saying “Single Tank Adapter” takes way too much time so I never use it.
I dislike them anyway and think of them as a patch, and a pretty poor one at that.

 

[Nemrod]

He made a lead blanket that forms itself over the plate for added ballast. I’m telling you the guy is good.

Oh, a lead blanket, I should have figured! I know Happy Diver is good! Of course he is, he is the Happy Diver ! Maybe one from depleted uranium, he probably has some.

Yes, a STA is a patch to make something work which is sub-optimal as is the other patch, "roll control" and it's ilk. But a less egregious patch.

 

[JoeTPhilly]

I like using a single tank adapter. It makes things easy:

 

[rongoodman]

Any plate that is designed with a central ridge for attachment of doubles bands and therefore perches the single tank on that center ridge several inches further from the body than would a flat singles plate is a doubles plate adapted to single tank use either by a STA or "roll control" tabs built into the wing.

"several inches" is a bit of an overstatement. I just measured my Halcyon plate and found the middle of the plate to be about 1 1/4" off the floor.