Location of drysuit dump valve

[gasgirl]

I have difficulty reaching my shoulder dump valve on my Whites Fusion drysuit. It seems to me that the wrist cuff dump would be an obvious solution. I am just curious as to why this is not a more popular option.

Are there significant downsides that I am not aware of?

 

[Hickdive]

Yes, you need to take a positive action i.e. raising your wrist to dump air, rather than just setting a shoulder dump to open and forgetting about it.

Also, wrist dumps cannot be closed so you can't easily use them as an auxiliary buoyancy device on the surface.

Finally, if you're doing anything with the arm fitted with the cuff dump then raising that arm to complete a task will lead to involuntary dumping of air. If you're diving from a small boat and have to remove your equipment to re-board then this is at least a real pain and, at worst, dangerous.

 

[Bopper]

I asked a similar question about cuff dump valves not too long ago as I had just recently purchased a Norther Diver drysuit at a smoking price and really didn't care where or what the exhaust valve was. I recently finally had the chance to dive it. Turns out it works perfectly fine. It is true that it takes more motion to vent. However, I've also found that the more drysuit diving you do the less you actually have to even use the vent. The non-adjustability of a cuff dump is not an issue as I'm always wide open on my shoulder dumps anyway (I'm a convert ).

One thing you might consider as well is that it might be a little harder to vent all the air on the surface prior to your decent. You might have to become extra diligent about burping your suit pre-dive. Or you might just keep your shoulder valve wide open at the surface and - if you can and want to - close it during the dive.

EDIT: I should add that I always use by BCD at the surface for buoyancy. It's my experience that when you're in a vertical position and you're using your drysuit as a buoyancy device at the surface, there is a lot of pressure that builds up at the neck seal. Air easily escapes when you are bobbing up and down in the ocean, causing 'waves' of pressure at the neck seal that eventually undermines the buoyancy of the suit.

 

[TSandM]

I'll hazard a guess that you are a relatively small woman, and have the SiTech neck ring on your suit? It DOES restrict one's reach across the body. I solve the issue very simply -- I just dive with the dump valve wide open all the time. You DO have to maintain something close to horizontal trim to do this, though.

I had a cuff dump on a prior suit. I did not like it at all; every time I raised my arm for any reason, I dumped suit gas. Makes practicing valve drills a real PITA.

 

[elmer fudd]

My current drysuit, (Apollo), actually has 4 valves on it, (wrist, 2 ankles and shoulder). When I got it, I was already used to diving dry and I basically regarded the extra dumps as gimmicks and potential failure points. I assumed I would just close them off and forget about them, but I'm one of those kinds of people who absolutely has to try things out, so after a few dives I opened them all up. It was great!

All those dump valves make diving a drysuit with them more like diving a wetsuit. To a large extent you can forget about the air bubble in your suit. Just add small amounts of air to prevent squeeze and use your BC for buoyancy. Your suit automatically dumps the extra air in almost any position.

IMO, the main thing about the wrist valve is that it gives you an ability to dump more air more easily than a shoulder valve. Simply assume an upright posture and raise your left hand and nearly all the air in your suit will proceed to empty out your wrist valve. Sure, you can do the same thing with a shoulder valve, but the wrist valve does it more easily and more completely.

I would not want a wrist valve instead of a shoulder valve however, only as an auxiliary to it.

 

[Imla]

Diving doubles... for me, a wrist valve would make valvedrills an absoute pain...
However.. I have never had a problemm reaching my suitvalve, and stay pretty much horizontal, so it is just kept completely open.

 

[Teamcasa]

.... I solve the issue very simply -- I just dive with the dump valve wide open all the time. ...

I absolutely agree. My lovely bride has a Fusion and I dive the Catalyst, we both dive with the valve wide open.

 

[gasgirl]

Also, wrist dumps cannot be closed so you can't easily use them as an auxiliary buoyancy device on the surface.

Actually, the Whites Fusion has an adjustable Apeks valve so I anticipate I will be able to open and close it easily (since I can actually reach the valve!)

---------- Post added June 10th, 2013 at 01:20 PM ----------

I asked a similar question about cuff dump valves not too long ago as I had just recently purchased a Norther Diver drysuit at a smoking price and really didn't care where or what the exhaust valve was. I recently finally had the chance to dive it. Turns out it works perfectly fine. It is true that it takes more motion to vent. However, I've also found that the more drysuit diving you do the less you actually have to even use the vent. The non-adjustability of a cuff dump is not an issue as I'm always wide open on my shoulder dumps anyway (I'm a convert ).

One thing you might consider as well is that it might be a little harder to vent all the air on the surface prior to your decent. You might have to become extra diligent about burping your suit pre-dive. Or you might just keep your shoulder valve wide open at the surface and - if you can and want to - close it during the dive.

EDIT: I should add that I always use by BCD at the surface for buoyancy. It's my experience that when you're in a vertical position and you're using your drysuit as a buoyancy device at the surface, there is a lot of pressure that builds up at the neck seal. Air easily escapes when you are bobbing up and down in the ocean, causing 'waves' of pressure at the neck seal that eventually undermines the buoyancy of the suit.

Thanks for your advice and sharing the link to your thread. It looks like Peter_C's wife enjoys her wrist cuff!

---------- Post added June 10th, 2013 at 01:25 PM ----------

I'll hazard a guess that you are a relatively small woman, and have the SiTech neck ring on your suit? It DOES restrict one's reach across the body. I solve the issue very simply -- I just dive with the dump valve wide open all the time. You DO have to maintain something close to horizontal trim to do this, though.

I had a cuff dump on a prior suit. I did not like it at all; every time I raised my arm for any reason, I dumped suit gas. Makes practicing valve drills a real PITA.

Yeah, that's the problem... I am still sorting out my trim and I don't always seem to be able to shrug my shoulder properly to dump all the air. We were practicing in the pool yesterday and my husband said that he could see there was air still trapped in my drysuit after venting with the valve wide open. And yes, although I realize that it is primarily due to a skill issue, I am very afraid of having an uncontrolled ascent while I am acquiring the competency to master my buoyancy control.

---------- Post added June 10th, 2013 at 01:27 PM ----------

I would not want a wrist valve instead of a shoulder valve however, only as an auxiliary to it.

I don't think having more than one dump valve is an option? At least I have never seen anyone diving a Whites Fusion with extra dumps...

---------- Post added June 10th, 2013 at 01:30 PM ----------

Diving doubles... for me, a wrist valve would make valvedrills an absoute pain...
However.. I have never had a problemm reaching my suitvalve, and stay pretty much horizontal, so it is just kept completely open.

I find the round permanent rings to be the biggest problem for me so I am planning to get the oval rings that are supposed to be more ergonomic instead.

However, I have not yet tried valve drills so I will have to take this into consideration as well now... thanks for sharing that info!

 

[LowDrag]

My wife dives the Fusion Fit and I dive the Fusion Bullet. We both have the shoulder dump and seem to have zero issues but then again neither of us are tiny ladies...LOL!!! I am 6'2" and my wife is 5'5". Our dive instructor who was doing our drysuit course taught us to trim out at about a 30° angle and to either cross our arms at the chest or hang our arms out in front of us and clasp our hands together. Then, when we want to dump gas we just, as he puts it, "Chicken wing" and cock our left shoulder upwards with the dump valve wide open and it vents off gas on it's own. I did end up backing off my valve about two clicks and found that I like that a bit better. During our check out dive this past Sunday I found that just a real quick "chicken wing" would dump off just enough gas to keep me neutral when were ascending along the bottom of the lake to the shallows. Good luck with your Fusion, I know that I am going to enjoy mine once I get my buoyancy dialed in better.


One question for you is...what are you wearing for a BC?

 

[spectrum]

I know ladies, including my wife that really like the cuff dump and it is an adjustable valve just like on the shoulder. It does amplify the drysuit behavior of inadverdently dumping air.

In general I also dive with my shoulder valve wide open and seldom need to push the button for a forced dump.

Also, a suit can have multiple dumps. You can get them with auxilliary dumps in each calve in addition to the common shoulder or wrist. The vast majority however are single point exhaust.

Pete