Locating Virgin Caves

[MikeFerrara]

You're right, how could I forget.

Speaking of.... someone in MO told me Roubidoux flow is down and is clearing up. He's been diving there recently. I hope to get down there in the next couple weeks.

I haven't heard anything from Missouri. I put in a call today to some one to see if I can find out.

Either Roubidoux or Cannonball...I'm ready!

 

[Mako Mark]

Crawford,

if you have fluvial deposits on the creek bed, that extend out into the lake, then it suggests that your area is not down cutting, so you are less likely to find active vadose systems, more likely to find phreatic systems or no conduit flow at all.

You said that there has been a lowereing of the water table due to (farm/agricultural) use. I would look towards the wells, there is often good sources of information from those.

Well/bore drilling logs can tell you a lot about the water table and the geology near the surface. I would go and talk to the local guy with the drilling rig, see what he has to say. If he pulls out a couple of divining sticks, then drink his whiskey and take the whole thing with a grain of salt.

Another source of information about subterranian flow that can come from contamination and environmental impact studies. Look for any pig or dairy farms in the area and check out their "sediment" ponds. Often times these were sources of groundwater conbtamination and show up in local council environmental impact studies etc. E.Coli is a great tracer in karst areas, as soon as an outbreak of ecoli poisoning occurs, hydrological studies happen. The water tracing is relatively easy, and usually well documented.

From the topographical maps you have look for drainage polygons. Closed valleys are a great indication of conduit flow. If you have a relatively flat landscape like we have here, then this wont help much.

If the overlying clay is thick, then you might be out of luck, sediment rapidly fills up capilliary conduits, and decreases the recharge of agressive water, you might be stuck with just a throughflow aquifer.

Have you contacted the NSS? They may have someone in your area!

 

[crawford]

Crawford,

if you have fluvial deposits on the creek bed, that extend out into the lake, then it suggests that your area is not down cutting, so you are less likely to find active vadose systems, more likely to find phreatic systems or no conduit flow at all.

You said that there has been a lowereing of the water table due to (farm/agricultural) use. I would look towards the wells, there is often good sources of information from those.

Well/bore drilling logs can tell you a lot about the water table and the geology near the surface. I would go and talk to the local guy with the drilling rig, see what he has to say. If he pulls out a couple of divining sticks, then drink his whiskey and take the whole thing with a grain of salt.

Another source of information about subterranian flow that can come from contamination and environmental impact studies. Look for any pig or dairy farms in the area and check out their "sediment" ponds. Often times these were sources of groundwater conbtamination and show up in local council environmental impact studies etc. E.Coli is a great tracer in karst areas, as soon as an outbreak of ecoli poisoning occurs, hydrological studies happen. The water tracing is relatively easy, and usually well documented.

From the topographical maps you have look for drainage polygons. Closed valleys are a great indication of conduit flow. If you have a relatively flat landscape like we have here, then this wont help much.

If the overlying clay is thick, then you might be out of luck, sediment rapidly fills up capilliary conduits, and decreases the recharge of agressive water, you might be stuck with just a throughflow aquifer.

Have you contacted the NSS? They may have someone in your area!

The study showed that the sedimentation was in the lake that the creek was feeding, but not in the creek itself, only coarse sand, etc. The geologist specifically mentioned that he thought springs were "winnowing" the bottom sediment preventing any buildup. You have a deep hard bottom creek feeding a lake. The creek has incised into the clay bottom and reached the calcerous limestone formation, from what I understand.

There is pig farming in the area, so I could definitely check out the environmental studies. Thanks for that tip. Now that you mention it, I remember a long time ago that being a big issue in the region, so there's definitely going to be something there.

The "well digger" is another good idea. He'll probably have divining sticks and moonshine (instead of whiskey), but yet another good idea.

I still haven't contacted the geologist that led the study, and if I offer to put divers in the water, he may give me all the direction I need.

What about IR photos at different scales, etc. I need to read up on IR, but you'd think that the IR would show temperature "hotspots" during winter or "coldspots" during summer where a spring is located. Anyone have knowledge of this?

 

[crawford]

I haven't heard anything from Missouri. I put in a call today to some one to see if I can find out.

Either Roubidoux or Cannonball...I'm ready!

You got that right....My wife is leaving early with the kids for vacation back home end of July, so I'll be a cave diving bum for two weeks. Let me know when you head down this way.

 

[Mako Mark]

What about IR photos at different scales, etc. I need to read up on IR, but you'd think that the IR would show temperature "hotspots" during winter or "coldspots" during summer where a spring is located. Anyone have knowledge of this?

IR photos would probably work better on vegetation rather than water temp, I have less experience on that and imagine that you will just find the springs that you have already identified. It might work tho.

I would definately look at IR for summertime vegitation health as an good indication of water presence.

I have been working on remote imaging for the Yucatan, with some limited success. I have been looking for MSS (multi Spectral Scanner) images to manipulate but have not been able to find any for the area, however I have found good landsat 7 images from a website called resmap.com you will need to download a plugin and then search for apropriate images for your area.

The best way is to left click and draw a square on the world map on the home page. The landsat images have a resolution of 14.5 meters which is enough to discern farm tracks etc. I have identified systems from these images by connecting larger features and sinkholes. The plugin allows you to take gps coordinates too, which reduces legwork and jungle bashing a little.

There is pig farming in the area, so I could definitely check out the environmental studies. Thanks for that tip. Now that you mention it, I remember a long time ago that being a big issue in the region, so there's definitely going to be something there.

Yeah, Pig farms and sick kids usually cause a ruckus

The "well digger" is another good idea. He'll probably have divining sticks and moonshine (instead of whiskey), but yet another good idea.

Kentucky?

 

[crawford]

IR photos would probably work better on vegetation rather than water temp, I have less experience on that and imagine that you will just find the springs that you have already identified. It might work tho.

I would definately look at IR for summertime vegitation health as an good indication of water presence.

I have been working on remote imaging for the Yucatan, with some limited success. I have been looking for MSS (multi Spectral Scanner) images to manipulate but have not been able to find any for the area, however I have found good landsat 7 images from a website called resmap.com you will need to download a plugin and then search for apropriate images for your area.

The best way is to left click and draw a square on the world map on the home page. The landsat images have a resolution of 14.5 meters which is enough to discern farm tracks etc. I have identified systems from these images by connecting larger features and sinkholes. The plugin allows you to take gps coordinates too, which reduces legwork and jungle bashing a little.



Yeah, Pig farms and sick kids usually cause a ruckus




Kentucky?

I'm in KY right now at one of my companie's locations, so I laughed when I saw that. I give some of the guys here a hard time about the culture here, so I'll have to show them that. Ever see the movie "Next of Kin" with Patrick Swayze and Liam Neeson :11:

I haven't had a chance to check that web site out, but definitely will. I'll have to wait till I get home, I'm sure my laptop won't download the plugin because of security settings, etc. But that sounds exactly what I'm looking for. In my case, I suspect the springs are underwater in very swampy area, so everything is lush vegetation. I did notice some areas (prime targets right now) that had NO vegetation in channels. Could this be where ground water flow is moving and preventing things from growing?

Let me play with that site you mentioned and I'll get back with you. Maybe we can help each other out, since we're doing similar stuff.

Cheers,

 

[Norm]

Thumper trucks........I used thumper trucks. Several years ago jack-up trucks with extensive electronics toured the south and "thumped" the ground looking for domestic oil, minerals, etc. They found a huge underground lake near my home. I kept asking questions and researching it until I found someone that knew of a dry cave near the immediate area. Upon searching the cave guess what? The floor has collapsed and it is now a wet cave! (And yes, I have already made dives there) Good luck!
Norm

 

[crawford]

Thumper trucks........I used thumper trucks. Several years ago jack-up trucks with extensive electronics toured the south and "thumped" the ground looking for domestic oil, minerals, etc. They found a huge underground lake near my home. I kept asking questions and researching it until I found someone that knew of a dry cave near the immediate area. Upon searching the cave guess what? The floor has collapsed and it is now a wet cave! (And yes, I have already made dives there) Good luck!
Norm

Do you know where to find the info from these studies? I imagine this was done by a corporation.

Where is this cave at, I understand if you don't want to divulge.....

 

[crawford]

IR photos would probably work better on vegetation rather than water temp, I have less experience on that and imagine that you will just find the springs that you have already identified. It might work tho.

I would definately look at IR for summertime vegitation health as an good indication of water presence.

I have been working on remote imaging for the Yucatan, with some limited success. I have been looking for MSS (multi Spectral Scanner) images to manipulate but have not been able to find any for the area, however I have found good landsat 7 images from a website called resmap.com you will need to download a plugin and then search for apropriate images for your area.

The best way is to left click and draw a square on the world map on the home page. The landsat images have a resolution of 14.5 meters which is enough to discern farm tracks etc. I have identified systems from these images by connecting larger features and sinkholes. The plugin allows you to take gps coordinates too, which reduces legwork and jungle bashing a little.



Yeah, Pig farms and sick kids usually cause a ruckus




Kentucky?

That resmap.com site rocks. I looked at several maps, and that is just flat out awesome. Thanks for that tip. I don't think I've been able to get to the scale you are able to for some reason, but I'll keep playing with it.

Peace.

 

[akioMtFuji]

[A new cave name is Kikyaga :dazzler1: ]
A new cave is discovered in Okinawa.

Miyako Island is most islands with the sea cave in Japan.
But, the cave investigation of the land wasn't done till now.
I got the information service of the Okinawa Prefectural Government, and went to Miyako Island.

The cave name discovered this time is Kikyaga.
Kikyaga. is the well specified in the cultural properties.
It is a very interesting name.
Kikyaga is the well of the designated cultural properties.
It is the cave of the thin seawater.

Call it when you do cave diving in Okinawa.
Japanese cave diving has just begun.
Therefore, any amount can discover a new cave.
I discover it newly every time it dives in the cave in Japan.
There will be a few countries which can easily discover a new cave. :redcap: