Liveaboard Covid quarantine- Debate

[dianna912]

Assuming that they are not in a locality that requires it, should liveaboards require guests who test positive to quarantine?

We just got back from a highly infectious liveaboard that DID have this requirement. With at least 70% of the guests infected, welp, it's safe to say it didn't work.

My thought process is this: unless you require an extremely harsh, any symptoms=quarantine type of policy, which is untenable on a dive boat. (Congestion/ear issues/fatigue/achiness are all symptoms of a long dive day) you will never stop it before it has already spread. I understand that boats want to protect their crew, but quarantining guests is just a feel-good measure to allow everyone to carry on as usual, except of the souls locked in a tiny room. This is what happened on our boat. No changes to anything were made until we started dropping like flies. The first couple that had it just got stuck in their room, while the crew did not mask around the other guests, everyone still ate in the same closed galley (except the quarantined couple) and it was all for absolutely nothing.

When we boarded the Juliet last March and they said: if one of us has it, all of us will, I thought they were being irresponsible. Now, I'm thinking they are correct.

My opinion: either take the "let er rip" strategy of the Juliet or have a policy that completely changes protocols, for everyone, the moment someone tests positive. No congregating in closed spaces, masks on all staff and guests when not eating, etc, etc.

 

[BlueTrin]

I guess they could run both and let people choose to see if there is demand. Personally I don’t care too much.

 

[tridacna]

There are a lot of peoples do not believe in that so I leave it aside.
My point is very simple: no vax = no entry to many countries at the moment eg. Indonesia, Malaysia, Philippines and Thailand, the most popular diving destination in SE Asia.

A “lot of people” believe that the earth is flat too.

The most important reason to get vaccinated is to keep you from being hospitalized or dying. Visiting SE Asia is a bonus.

COVID-19 vaccines reduce hospitalization, death in people with prior infection, study finds

Two-dose COVID-19 vaccines significantly increase protection against hospitalization and death in people who had the illness before they were immunized.

med.stanford.edu

You are right, it doesn't nor the spread. Yes, you can enter many countries after jumping through hoops and still and catch and spread covid, then get stuck again with jumping through their other hoops.

Vaccinated or not, I would rather stick to countries that are not overly controlling about it.

True, if you are more likely to be hospitalized or die from it.

The Journal of the American Heart Association states that most hospitalizations are due to one or more of the below conditions.




If someone needs to go to the hospital for whatever reason, it is what it is. On a liveaboard its more likely that if anyone needs to go to a hospital it's not because of covid.

You forget the most important comorbidity:

 

[BlueTrin]

A “lot of people” believe that the earth is flat too.

The most important reason to get vaccinated is to keep you from being hospitalized or dying. Visiting SE Asia is a bonus.

COVID-19 vaccines reduce hospitalization, death in people with prior infection, study finds

Two-dose COVID-19 vaccines significantly increase protection against hospitalization and death in people who had the illness before they were immunized.

med.stanford.edu

You forget the most important comorbidity:


View attachment 736715

Well his argument is that in absolute % it’s not higher enough to warrant an obligation.

When you deal with tail events it’s hard sometimes to compare the figures.

 

[waterone]

You forget the most important comorbidity:


View attachment 736715

As per my previous posts, It is no surprise to me that if you have more than one medical issue that your chances of issues OR DEATH increase

Comorbidity while putting you at a higher risk with covid is still a risk per individual. Usually someone that has such problems will be vaxxed and as you can see the percentage is much lower. Now, If someone still chooses to get on a boat with such conditions and is unvaxxed, the percentage of actually needing medical intervention and or death is still not enough for me not to worry about a hospital trip more than thinking about the possibility of someone having a dive related injury.

I am not debating the need or reason for people to be vaxxed or not, nor am I putting aside age and other medical conditions being THE largest contributing factors in hospitalization. At the same time, I am not concerned with someone else's medical choices and if someone wants or does not want a vax, that is up to them alone.

As I said previously:

If someone needs to go to the hospital for whatever reason, it is what it is. On a liveaboard its more likely that if anyone needs to go to a hospital it's not because of covid.

If someone is concerned about covid (for whatever reason), stop worrying about others vax status and get vaxxed or stay home as you will eventually catch it, likely multiple times.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Now, If someone still chooses to get on a boat with such conditions and is unvaxxed, the percentage of actually needing medical intervention and or death is still low enough for me not to worry about a hospital trip more than someone having a dive related injury.

I didn't do that well in my Probability and Statistics class, but wouldn't the probability of having to return to port due to both of these two events being probable--severe illness due to Covid and a dive-related injury--be greater than the probability of having to return to port if severe illness due to Covid were not probable? In other words, it isn't either-or. I get it that the probability of either event is low, but both are probable, as we know. People do have dive injuries severe enough to return to port now and then, and people do get severely sick from Covid now and then.

 

[waterone]

I didn't do that well in my Probability and Statistics class, but wouldn't the probability of having to return to port due to both of these two events being probable--severe illness due to Covid and a dive-related injury--be greater than the probability of having to return to port if severe illness due to Covid were not probable? In other words, it isn't either-or. I get it that the probability of either event is low, but both are probable, as we know. People do have dive injuries severe enough to return to port now and then, and people do get severely sick from Covid now and then.

Not sure what the actual statistics are but I know it is more than 0, so I will just go with 1+1 does indeed =2. As such there is indeed a higher probability of issue arising if either one was not an issue. However, both are low and personally I wouldn't be overly concerned about

At the same time, I get it, some are concerned about such. Personally, I have worried so much about things that didn't happen, that I am now willing to not worry about the small chance that it does. If it happens, I will deal with it

 

[BRT]

I didn't do that well in my Probability and Statistics class, but wouldn't the probability of having to return to port due to both of these two events being probable--severe illness due to Covid and a dive-related injury--be greater than the probability of having to return to port if severe illness due to Covid were not probable? In other words, it isn't either-or. I get it that the probability of either event is low, but both are probable, as we know. People do have dive injuries severe enough to return to port now and then, and people do get severely sick from Covid now and then.

Basically back to the "is it safer to dive with nitrox" issue.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Basically back to the "is it safer to dive with nitrox" issue.

Not sure what you mean. But I'd expect someone to reply to my thought with something along the lines of "the sum of two very small numbers is still a small number."

edit: I hadn't seen waterone's reply when I typed this, and I believe that's what he meant.

 

[ThatDogDontHunt]

Assuming that they are not in a locality that requires it, should liveaboards require guests who test positive to quarantine?

We just got back from a highly infectious liveaboard that DID have this requirement. With at least 70% of the guests infected, welp, it's safe to say it didn't work.

My thought process is this: unless you require an extremely harsh, any symptoms=quarantine type of policy, which is untenable on a dive boat. (Congestion/ear issues/fatigue/achiness are all symptoms of a long dive day) you will never stop it before it has already spread. I understand that boats want to protect their crew, but quarantining guests is just a feel-good measure to allow everyone to carry on as usual, except of the souls locked in a tiny room. This is what happened on our boat. No changes to anything were made until we started dropping like flies. The first couple that had it just got stuck in their room, while the crew did not mask around the other guests, everyone still ate in the same closed galley (except the quarantined couple) and it was all for absolutely nothing.

When we boarded the Juliet last March and they said: if one of us has it, all of us will, I thought they were being irresponsible. Now, I'm thinking they are correct.

My opinion: either take the "let er rip" strategy of the Juliet or have a policy that completely changes protocols, for everyone, the moment someone tests positive. No congregating in closed spaces, masks on all staff and guests when not eating, etc, etc.

The real answer appears to be that we don't get to vote on this.

Covid is an airborne infectious disease. How many people would be comfortable mingling with a Tuberculosis case who was coughing all over the lunch buffet?

A small amount of googling appears to indicate that isolation of infectious people is standard procedure for cruise ships. A LOB is just a small specialized cruise ship. So I don't think that we the passengers have any say in this matter. The captain will already be operating with mandatory quarantine protocols in place.

 

[waterone]

Basically back to the "is it safer to dive with nitrox" issue.

I am doing a single dive later today and I need to know if it is safer to dive to my NDL with nitrox!