tarponchik
Contributor
Yes, I know about the starlings...but they are not the worst thing that came to North America. IMHO Asian Wisteria and other aggressive wines are much more dangerous.
Lionfish roundup
- Thread starter Steve50
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I had an aggressive wine with dinner just the other night. Ruined the entire meal.
tarponchik
Contributor
Drink Vodka and you'll be fine. But "vines" of course ;-))
Pontius320
Registered
Mid 1800's, idiot made it his personal mission to introduce every bird mentioned in the works of William Shakespeare to North America, released them in Central Park. I doubt the Bard would have agreed with the plan.
I shot one emerging from a hole in my house, discovered it was just a visitor, felt bad, then realized he had 200 million thug buddies. Didnt feel so bad after that.
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Yep, and welcome to SB...!
I thot it might be nice to put a bird feeder on my porch, even tho I knew it meant washing the area often. It got mauled by English Sparrows...!
American Sparrows are actually not closely related to the English bird of the same general name.Eight pair were brought to the U.S. in 1850 for the purpose of ridding the shade trees of inch worms and in the spring of 1851 Nicholas Pike and other directors of the Brooklyn Institute released them in Brooklyn, New York.
They did not survive. Nevertheless, destiny was on the side of the Hoard and Pike arranged for the importation of one hundred more which were released in 1852 and 1853.
In 1854 Colonel Rhodes imported and released some of the birds in Portland Maine and some in Quebec. In the next ten years, a few hundred more were imported and released in Quebec and the areas around Portland, Boston and New York.
In 1869, about one thousand were released in Philadelphia. They were released in San Francisco, Cleveland, Cincinnati, St. Louis and several other cities in the interior. Between 1874 and 1876 a few were released in Jackson and Owosso, Michigan and in 1881 they were introduced in Iowa.
It wasn't long before the destruction of crops, the spread of disease and parasites, competition with song birds, its filthy habits and a population explosion revealed its introduction as a huge mistake.
The Ivory Bill Publishes Wildlife & Habitat Conservation News, Government Management Activities, and Opportunities for Public Input
But control and extermination attempts with bounties and poison have proved useless against such a pervasive species. The winged rat is in complete possession of the continent. It does considerable damage to grain crops and storage. The sparrow's movements between farms expedites the spread of chicken lice and mites and livestock diseases which can be spread by mere physical contact.
But then the UK is fighting off an invasion of the American Gray Squirrel which is crowding out their native Red Squirrel - by making sport and cuisine of killing them. I'm not eating a Sparrow, but let's try it with the Lionfish.
Jack Scuba
Contributor
I was just waiting for someone to say 'introduce a predator' to eat the lionfish. That never ends well.
We had starlings come into Nova Scotia back in the early 90s and it was a shock to realize they had pushed all of the other birds out (chickadees especially). By the time you recognize the change it is already too late.
But perhaps if the lionfish stays shallow they can be culled down to a reasonable level in the popular reef areas. But it is kind of like having a sheep dog watch your flock... all you're doing is keeping the wolves at bay.
We had starlings come into Nova Scotia back in the early 90s and it was a shock to realize they had pushed all of the other birds out (chickadees especially). By the time you recognize the change it is already too late.
But perhaps if the lionfish stays shallow they can be culled down to a reasonable level in the popular reef areas. But it is kind of like having a sheep dog watch your flock... all you're doing is keeping the wolves at bay.
tarponchik
Contributor
Funny to read you, guys.
Back in Russia, starlings were always a welcome sign that Spring has come, finally, after long Winter. Now in US they are "thugs with wings," "winged rats," etc. Come on, they may compete with other small birds for nesting in cavities, but they still do their job of controlling insects, such as cutworms. Notably, starlings are the most efficient eaters of another dreaded invader, the Japanese beetle. The real danger for small American songbirds comes not from the starlings, but from crows and squirrels who destroy their nests and eat their offspring. Since crows and squirrels are well adapted to live with humans in the 'burbs, small songbirds have no chances as long as the 'burbs keep expanding, destroying the habitat of hawks and owls who are the natural enemies of crows and squirrels, and supporting the population of crows with food-rich dumpsters. Starlings are simply better adapted then most songbirds to survive because they are social and congregate in flocks. The choice is, most likely, that you either have starlings or you do not have any songbirds at all. Thus, comparing European starling with lionfish is unfair; it can very well be America's last chance against the insects. Or would you prefer to use DDT again?
Back in Russia, starlings were always a welcome sign that Spring has come, finally, after long Winter. Now in US they are "thugs with wings," "winged rats," etc. Come on, they may compete with other small birds for nesting in cavities, but they still do their job of controlling insects, such as cutworms. Notably, starlings are the most efficient eaters of another dreaded invader, the Japanese beetle. The real danger for small American songbirds comes not from the starlings, but from crows and squirrels who destroy their nests and eat their offspring. Since crows and squirrels are well adapted to live with humans in the 'burbs, small songbirds have no chances as long as the 'burbs keep expanding, destroying the habitat of hawks and owls who are the natural enemies of crows and squirrels, and supporting the population of crows with food-rich dumpsters. Starlings are simply better adapted then most songbirds to survive because they are social and congregate in flocks. The choice is, most likely, that you either have starlings or you do not have any songbirds at all. Thus, comparing European starling with lionfish is unfair; it can very well be America's last chance against the insects. Or would you prefer to use DDT again?
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I just mentioned them as an introduced specie out of control, but there are so many really. We don't get Starlings here I don't think, but I am always happy to see Cliff Wrens that have immigrated into this part of Texas now that they have learned to build their mud nests on our buildings, even tho they always seem to go for our front porches and make a big mess, as well as the Free-tail bat that has set up a summer colony in an old, brick building on the edge of town.
Much more effort and money was used to get the English Sparrow started here but now it is all over. I can't think of anything nice about them. They kill other birds in nest boxes, eat the crops we grow, etc. I am going to try a different seed mix in my feeder and some other tricks I read about at Managing House Sparrows
Much more effort and money was used to get the English Sparrow started here but now it is all over. I can't think of anything nice about them. They kill other birds in nest boxes, eat the crops we grow, etc. I am going to try a different seed mix in my feeder and some other tricks I read about at Managing House Sparrows
Some invasive species work out.
I was surprised to learn when reading an article in the Smithsonian about the anniversary of the settling of Jamestown that earthworms are not native to North America, and that when the first European settlers arrived the floors of the forests were piled with dead leaves.
I was surprised to learn when reading an article in the Smithsonian about the anniversary of the settling of Jamestown that earthworms are not native to North America, and that when the first European settlers arrived the floors of the forests were piled with dead leaves.
Jack Scuba
Contributor
Crows and squirrels are natural predators and competitors of our native song birds so I would say the native birds are able to withstand that pressure in most areas. If you have the actual research that shows otherwise I'd love to read it.
Song birds are definitely impacted by the spread of suburbia, but thankfully many areas are setting up conservation areas and also making boxes for native birds (starlings don't use bird boxes with holes smaller that 1 1/2"). It is helping; but when the starling arrives it pushes out the native birds even if it doesn't take over the nesting boxes due to the starling's ability to lay 2 to 5 broods of eggs per season, and its tendency for aggressive and large flock sizes.
Your point about starlings eating pests and being beneficial made me stop and research this aspect of their behaviour. And I found a great article from the star by a retired avian researcher - http://www.thestar.com/Unassigned/article/568905 that supports your comments. They do eat invasive pests and a lot of the agricultural damage attributed to them was overblown. Your comment about them being our last chance or having to use DDT is over the top, but you do score points for being dramatic.
The comparison still holds true as both Starlings and lionfish are environmental generalists and they will continue to expand their ranges at the expense of other animals. They were both introduced by man into areas where they were able to flourish due to a lack of natural predation.
Song birds are definitely impacted by the spread of suburbia, but thankfully many areas are setting up conservation areas and also making boxes for native birds (starlings don't use bird boxes with holes smaller that 1 1/2"). It is helping; but when the starling arrives it pushes out the native birds even if it doesn't take over the nesting boxes due to the starling's ability to lay 2 to 5 broods of eggs per season, and its tendency for aggressive and large flock sizes.
Your point about starlings eating pests and being beneficial made me stop and research this aspect of their behaviour. And I found a great article from the star by a retired avian researcher - http://www.thestar.com/Unassigned/article/568905 that supports your comments. They do eat invasive pests and a lot of the agricultural damage attributed to them was overblown. Your comment about them being our last chance or having to use DDT is over the top, but you do score points for being dramatic.
The comparison still holds true as both Starlings and lionfish are environmental generalists and they will continue to expand their ranges at the expense of other animals. They were both introduced by man into areas where they were able to flourish due to a lack of natural predation.
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