Lionfish...Okay this is funny

[orangetallguy]

My introduction comment wasn't directed towards you...I was referring to a comment a few pages back and just forgot to quote. Regardless...I question whether increasing the grouper population would 1) effectively reduce lionfish population numbers to the point where they would decline as a whole or 2) have equally destructive consequences for other species on the reef. Admittedly, I haven't done any marine work (I'm a graduate student doing conservation work in freshwater systems) but I would imagine that some of the same management concepts/complications are applicable.

So I was just thinking of applying the triploid stripped bass concept to a marine system. Basically making the species unable to reproduce properly in the system so it can't create a viable population....gradually leading to a decline in population numbers. Who knows if this would work for a species that was accidentally released into an open systems...rather than purposefully released into a closed one.

 

[redrover]

...deleted.

 

[geokr]

My introduction comment wasn't directed towards you...I was referring to a comment a few pages back and just forgot to quote. Regardless...I question whether increasing the grouper population would 1) effectively reduce lionfish population numbers to the point where they would decline as a whole or 2) have equally destructive consequences for other species on the reef. Admittedly, I haven't done any marine work (I'm a graduate student doing conservation work in freshwater systems) but I would imagine that some of the same management concepts/complications are applicable.

So I was just thinking of applying the triploid stripped bass concept to a marine system. Basically making the species unable to reproduce properly in the system so it can't create a viable population....gradually leading to a decline in population numbers. Who knows if this would work for a species that was accidentally released into an open systems...rather than purposefully released into a closed one.

My comment wasn't directed at you either, but to the large numbers of posters here, like Gen San Chris, who post nonsense as fact and think this problem is just another of Mother Nature's way of showing she's in control. Well, maybe, but in the mean time there's a growing problem in the Caribbean and Gulf that isn't going to resolve itself like it has in the Indo-Pacific.

Your suggestion may have merit and should be tried in a controlled environment to see if it can be applied broadly. Personally, I think the control, which may be present in the natural areas for lionfish, has to do with a factor yet undetermined that diminishes the lionfish population as larvae or juveniles at the latest and is not present here. Any degree of maturity that provides them a measure of self defense and they are pretty much immune to predators. Just where that is and what that factor is remains to be determined. But I'm an engineer, not an ichthyologist so what the hell do I know. I do know that with the right seasonings you can have a great meal with them and I also believe we can convince the Chinese that they're good for whatever they think they're lacking at home.

 

[farsidefan1]

Our high school cheer was (till it got banned) Kill kill, hate hate, murder murder mutilate. We got the buffalo, whales, sharks, dodo birds, and innumerable other species, why not the lionfish. I mean, C'mon, if we can unintentionally wipe out, obliterate or drastically reduce the population of all these critters just think what a concerted effort could do. Supported by PETA, the Sierra Club and the NRA, well it just boggles the mind! On a more serious note one thing I would be very much against is the little old lady who swallowed the fly approach. Let's not introduce any other non native species to comabat the lionfish. Think cane toads, rabbits Mongoose(mongeese?) and all the other disasters we have inflicted upon the world with good intentions and stupid thought processes. Let's just kill 'em and eat 'em. It's worked with everything else we've gone after.

 

[redrover]

I don't know which of these is the best.

Yesterday, for lunch, I tried "Lionfish Stew". What a rush!

When I got home, I couldn't help myself. Took my wife like Sherman took Atlanta.

Did for me what Viagra and Cialis couldn't. I haven't been like that in twenty years!

This morning, my wife was outside waxing my truck before breakfast. She sent a broadcast e-mail telling all her girlfriends to insist their husbands try "lionfish stew".

Alas, if only it was this easy.

...Let's just kill 'em and eat 'em. It's worked with everything else we've gone after.

 

[DandyDon]

Well, this is one way to handle a "prickly problem". I received this from the FGBNMS/NOAA this morning. What an innovative way to address an ecological dilemma.

http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=0012Hb0sYsM...V2dlViJA6PLxCmsjGSeyeB0i5vHdln08XCwJSafd0KIU=

So let's all get out there and do our part, right? Hey, I'll even VOLUNTEER to go catch a few...if someone would only take me along on a Bahama excursion!

Hold left-click down and drag cursor to highlight all of article, then use CTRL+C to copy, then CTRL+V to paste - before the link dies. Too late for this one but next time.

 

[SkipperJohn]

Once a foreign species is introduced it's unlikely there's anything anyone can do.
And bringing in a predator to control the invader has never worked. In Hawaii, in the early years rats were brought in on ships. It became a problem so they brought in mongoose to kill the rats. The mongoose targeted native species because they were easier to catch. If I recall then another species was brought in to control the mongoose. That too failed miserably for similar reasons. It's just best to let a natural balance adjust itself or make it a trendy restaurant dish. A little lucrative commercial fishing will wipe any species out.

 

[Baracuda Smile]

Skipper John Once a foreign species is introduced it's unlikely there's anything anyone can do.
And bringing in a predator to control the invader has never worked. In Hawaii, in the early years rats were brought in on ships. It became a problem so they brought in mongoose to kill the rats. The mongoose targeted native species because they were easier to catch. If I recall then another species was brought in to control the mongoose. That too failed miserably for similar reasons. It's just best to let a natural balance adjust itself or make it a trendy restaurant dish. A little lucrative commercial fishing will wipe any species out.

Skipper John,

I am not proposing to introduce a new species but one that is native to the Atlantic and that has been decimated through over fishing. I originally come from Montana and have seen how good managment works. We have some of the best fishing in the USA due to our fish hatcheries and game management plan.

Here is what I stated previously...

The lionfish in Okinawa, Japan are in balance with other fish in the reef. Yet on my last dive I saw four large grouper 4 foot longer or more. Which, are are all still hunting and killing lionfiish. I also saw four large lion fish 12 inches in the same cave, but no juvenile lionfish.

It sounds like instead of hunting and killing lion fish you should start an Atlantic Grouper fish hatchery and when they get big enough release them into the wild. This will restore the balance that was caused by over fishing grouper. The grouper will kill the lion fish for you. If the Grouper gets out of control you can open the spearfishing band to control its numbers. PS everyone likes to eat grouper not nessarily eat mongoose.

When are you selling your lionfish recepe book? You can use the proceeds to build your Grouper fish hatchery.

Anyway in my post I was proposing starting a Grouper fish hatchery with native speicies of Atlantic Grouper, not introducing any new species.

The Pacific lionfish are so invasive because of the lack of predators, and the lack of coral reefs for minnows to mature.

So 1 conserve the reef (gives protection for minnows to hide from lionfish)
And 2 help the Atlantic Grouper control the lionfish (fish hatchery/stop fishing for Grouper)

 

[SkipperJohn]

sorry, I wasn't responding to your post necessarily, just making an observation.

 

[daniel1948]

I suspect that hunting the lionfish to extinction, or even to control levels where they are in balance with other species, may not be so easy. Species that we have hunted to extinction or to endangered levels have generally been large animals, often ones that congregate in large herds or flocks, making them easy to hunt. In the case of whales and sharks, these are large, open-water animals that can be found with due diligence (whales must surface, and give a clear indication of their location) or trolled for (sharks) using long lines. We have wiped out other animals by destroying their habitat.

Lionflish, on the other hand, are reclusive, hiding in the reefs, and not generally social. Killing the reef may eliminate them, but that's obviously not what we want to do. So hunting them must be an individual endeavor. If they taste good, go for it! Invite me and I'll join you for lunch. But it's not likely to be a solution to the problem, as the more successful it becomes, the more difficult it gets.

I suspect there's nothing we can do that will really address the problem. The ecosystem will change and eventually reach its own balance. That may be one that we as divers do not like. But nature has never cared whether or not we like its direction. If we are lucky, a disease or parasite may respond to the increasing lionfish numbers and hold them in check. The natural environment is constantly changing, and attempts to hold it static are doomed to failure.

I agree that swallowing a spider to catch the fly is the worst thing we could do.