Lion Air flight JT610 crashes into sea after take-off from Jakarta...

[Steve_C]

Often those are the main sources of information. However, there was the case a few years ago where the pilot shut off all recording and then the plane dove and crashed. Using the radar tracking information Boeing was able to determine that the only way the plane could have done such a dive was if the pilot forced it to dive like that and it was determined the crash was a pilot suicide.

 

[chillyinCanada]

For me, (little old me, sigh), I'd prefer that they find the cockpit recorder.

 

[Diving Dubai]

Not sure where you got your info from? The black box, which is actually orange, will show 1000 of parameters from engine start to accident site and often can offer enough information that the NTSB, or equivalent authority can determine cause.

The Black box, is actually black. The orange case is a fire and crash resistant surround.

The ADR merely records all the parameters. It will tell you what is going on in the final moments (generally it has a 2 hr loop) and for the time leading up to the incident. it can't tell you the cause.

For instance: It can tell you that the engine has lost thrust, perhaps the LP (NL) nad HP (NH) have wound down. It will tell you that but it can't tell you why (say a catastrophic disc failure)

It is a misconception that recovering the ADR and CVR will instantly give you the cause. They give you pointers. The CVR (Cockpit voice recorder) allows you to hear the crew, and their reactions to teh incident. I can assure you listening to the CVR is always disturbing. The final seconds isn't' peaceful.

I have fair insight. I've been involved as a metallurgist in 27 Air crash investigations. If the ADR and CVR were all knowing, people like me wouldn't' have been required)

I refuse to speculate, but am happy to answer questions

 

[Diving Dubai]

Maybe Altamira is referring to the additional information that might be provided by the Cockpit Voice Recorder? As I understand it, the Flight Data Recorder and Cockpit Voice Recorder are the two main sources of information that investigators would rely upon in determining a cause.

Yes and no.

They do give a lot of information and they can give you the direction to look. Unfortunately it's not like the movies. The data give you a direction but you still need to find the root causes, which is always a chain of events

 

[Altamira]

Not sure where you got your info from? The black box, which is actually orange, will show 1000 of parameters from engine start to accident site and often can offer enough information that the NTSB, or equivalent authority can determine cause.

My 20 year military and 14 year major commercial aviation experience, plus participation in two military fighter aircraft accidents involving fatalities, should give you some idea as to the sources of my information. I was going to give you a more in-depth reply, but @Diving Dubai laid out the basics of why the wealth of parameter data provided by the Flight Data Recorder and Cockpit Voice Recorder normally give the NTSB investigators a lot of valuable information, but that is only part of the information needed to issue a final accident report. If the black box information was solely definitive, the investigators would not attempt to retrieve and evaluate every scrap of aircraft and human remains to determine not only what happened, but why the accident happened. An accident investigation is an extremely complex, thorough and demanding process accomplished by experts ranging from engineers, aircraft systems, flight surgeons, forensic scientists, pilots, and a host of others. It is not an easy or pleasant task.

 

[Wisnu]

the SAR involves more than hundred divers, most of them from marines and national SAR including dozens volunteers.
reported viz typically 1 -3 m, could reach 5 m but with strong currents, small debris scattered in thousand meters mud bottom area
unfortunately, one of the volunteers has lost his life in the operation. He is very experience scuba diver, a bussines man - regular volunteer to underwater SAR activity in Indonesian.
very saddened to hear this loss; my prayers are with the family

 

[chillyinCanada]

the SAR involves more than hundred divers, most of them from marines and national SAR including dozens volunteers.
reported viz typically 1 -3 m, could reach 5 m but with strong currents, small debris scattered in thousand meters mud bottom area
unfortunately, one of the volunteers has lost his life in the operation. He is very experience scuba diver, a bussines man - regular volunteer to underwater SAR activity in Indonesian.
very saddened to hear this loss; my prayers are with the family

Thanks for the illuminating info. My regrets that such a loss is part of that info. I'm very sorry for your personal loss.

 

[Dan]

@DandyDon just posted that sad news here: Indonesian recovery diver dies working jet crash search

Condolences to Almarhum Syachrul Anto's family & friends.

 

[billt4sf]

If you are interested in aircraft accidents (and who isn't?) there are a number of series' that can be streamed. Some re-enact the accident in the cockpit. They are really quite interesting, my wife and I watched a number of them, but at some point we stopped even thought they still held our interest, because we simply didn't want to be thinking about specific incidents while we were flying.

- Bill

 

[Mike Veitch]

but at some point we stopped even thought they still held our interest, because we simply didn't want to be thinking about specific incidents while we were flying.

- Bill

Ya, so I was flying Bali - Lombok - Sumbawa the other day... arrived in Lombok and waiting for my flight to Sumbawa when my Google App on the phone chimes in: "Story you may be interested in: Lion Air flight crashes off Jakarta"..... Thanks google, no, definitely not interested in that story at the moment!