Limits assessment methods?

[northernone]

As an offshoot from boulderjohn's thoughtful post:

'How do we know the difference between a reasonable step forward and an unreasonable leap into danger?'

What matrix or methods do you personally use to assess your current limits? Secondly, how do you decide how to extend them?

Regards,
Cameron

 

[DevonDiver]

My thoughts are pretty much contained in two articles I wrote recently:

The Biggest Risk in Technical Diving (and how to avoid it) (self-awareness)

Technical Diving - The Experience Paradox (complacency versus caution)

.....and this one from a while ago:

Technical vs Recreational Scuba Diving: Boundaries and Limitations -

 

[kensuf]

Sheck Exley's Razor - The Nature of Limits

 

[rjack321]

What matrix or methods do you personally use to assess your current limits? Secondly, how do you decide how to extend them?

Consciously seeking out people who are better than you helps you understand how you suck. Bonus points if they aren't shy about describing your shortcomings.

We all suck, in our own unique ways. "Peer review" is the best way to ID suckage, pay attention to it in the future, work on remedial actions to mitigate your weak spots, and know how your weaknesses are likely to work against you on certain types of dives.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

 

[RainPilot]

Embrace the suck. When your dive buddies run out of things to nitpick on, find new buddies. To err is human, to not correct it and not improve is unforgivable. And all too often in this sport, fatal eventually.

As far as risk goes, there are some interesting tools available for risk assessment etc. I ask myself, is what I want to do there really worth all this hassle? What can go wrong, how likely is it and how badly stuffed will i be if it happens?

Usually the decision becomes pretty easy then, especially if I am honest with myself about my abilities and limitations. You can BS others if you feel you have to, but NEVER BS yourself.

 

[Doby45]

Consciously seeking out people who are better than you helps you understand how you suck. Bonus points if they aren't shy about describing your shortcomings.

We all suck, in our own unique ways. "Peer review" is the best way to ID suckage, pay attention to it in the future, work on remedial actions to mitigate your weak spots, and know how your weaknesses are likely to work against you on certain types of dives.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

While peer review is good, do not fall into the trap that Dr. Deep did and only surround yourself with people that think your crap doesn't stink. You can have some "peers" that think you literally invented scuba and in your little bubble, you may have. But, out in the big pond your an idiot.

 

[boulderjohn]

While peer review is good, do not fall into the trap that Dr. Deep did and only surround yourself with people that think your crap doesn't stink. You can have some "peers" that think you literally invented scuba and in your little bubble, you may have. But, out in the big pond your an idiot.

In the article I have tried to write on this several times, this plays a role. I tried to think of all the things that get in the way of our being able to make an honest assessment of our ability to do a coming dive. Being surrounded by people who constantly praise you and overstate your abilities is one of them. There is a subtle variation in this theme, though. To illustrate it, I will tell a completely unrelated story.

Jim Morrison, lead singer for the Doors, arrived for a dinner party hosted by a member of that entourage. When they sat down to eat, the host proudly and publicly set a full bottle of Courvoisier, Morrison's favorite alcoholic beverage, next to his place setting. The message as clear--"this bottle's for you!" Morrison drank it, and he ended up passed out on the floor with a complete loss of bladder control. In a moment of lucidity after he came out of it, he ripped into his host and essentially everyone in that entourage. When he placed that bottle in front of him, the message was "You're the drinking man!" That act told Morrison that he had a reputation to live up to and to exceed, if possible. It was a challenge he had to meet or be seen as a failure in the eyes of the group. "You guys are going to kill me," he said.

When your peers honestly believe that you are a rare individual who can do amazing things beyond the ability of mere humans, they subtly (or not subtly) push you to go beyond the miracles you have already achieved. Eventually, they may kill you.

 

[rjack321]

While peer review is good, do not fall into the trap that Dr. Deep did and only surround yourself with people that think your crap doesn't stink. You can have some "peers" that think you literally invented scuba and in your little bubble, you may have. But, out in the big pond your an idiot.

Dr Deep didn't get peer review. In all honestly, the majority of peer review is critical with only one or two positive bones in there to avoid getting so discouraged you quit. Delivering a critical review in a 'positive' way that makes you want to fix the issues is a rare art form. Only the very best teachers truly excel at it. When done correctly you step away with a much better idea of your boundaries - because your weaknesses as a diver are what define the limit between an adventurous dive and foolhardy one.

 

[boulderjohn]

Dr Deep didn't get peer review. In all honestly, the majority of peer review is critical with only one or two positive bones in there to avoid getting so discouraged you quit. Delivering a critical review in a 'positive' way that makes you want to fix the issues is a rare art form. Only the very best teachers truly excel at it. When done correctly you step away with a much better idea of your boundaries - because your weaknesses as a diver are what define the limit between an adventurous dive and foolhardy one.

The peer review has to come from someone with the necessary expertise to give that review. To stay with Dr. Deep as an example, according to the web articles following his death, he had only been technical diving for months really, and he had already surpassed the deepest dive every done by his tech instructor--215 feet. Those "experts" determined that "he knew more about technical diving than anyone on the planet." (Yes, they actually wrote that.)

That is another factor listed in my draft article--lack of knowledge about the true true nature of the stops you are about to take. Dr. Deep didn't know diddly-squat about technical diving, and his Mentors knew less. They thought, though, that they had it all mastered. If you do not truly know what you are getting into but think you do and go into it anyway, it is very easy to exceed your limits.

 

[rjack321]

I guess the extreme example might be illustrative here, but did Dr Deep actually think he was getting feedback on his personal weaknesses or limits? (from an objective source)
I thought his 'team' was all associated with one local shop/charter and included his son.