Lift bags for DIR

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by bengiddins
I'm in the market for a liftbag, and was looking at the Halcyon 80# - I saw a video someone posted in here a little while ago of a diver deploying one of these bags at depth - I noticed he only partially fills the bag (like 1/4 or so) before releasing it,

That might have been the 5thD video of Andrew G. (training director of GUE) shooting a bag properly by adding just enough gas to get the thing moving.

Seems there was an argument about this on one of the other boards awhile back... I don't remember all the paticipants & particulars.... but someone was shooting these little marker bags from 200'

Anyway.... we only shoot them at the 70' stop and only use a spool... but I suppose that if someone needed to haul stuff up off the bottom a real lift bag would be in order.

BTW... I did see Andrew fill mine completely at 40' (while swimming down against it) and when he let it go it didn't explode at the surface...

The water gets in through the one way inflation valve and is no big deal.

The bag is so small it is not going to be seen in big waves but it is fine for protected waters.... we carry one of the Big Markers for lumpy conditions.

 

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by aue-mike
As I mentioned, the problem with the Halycon is that the overpressure relief valve can not keep up with the expanding volume, leading to seam failure.

Did you find a bag that was suitable for your purposes?
Light salvage?

 

[aue-mike]

Hi Uncle Pug-
Yes, we now use Carter bags for drifting deco. Many times the visibility in the areas we dive exceeds 100-150 feet so I can watch the bag as it ascends. I use a 100 pound with a 50 pound backup Carter bag. I can watch it as it "lays on its side" as it cruises towards the surface. Ever so often I will stop the reel to allow the top of the bag to right itself and then allow it to continue to the surface. A pain in the ass, but it helps to insure a strong bag hitting the surface for the boat to see.

We used the Halcyon bag extensively when first available. They did not just sit idle either -- they were deployed on more dives than not as that is the type of diving (drifting deco) we do. When they started to fail repeatedly (over eight bags just in our group), including when shot from 70fsw or less, a sane person should question its reliability.

In regard to the depth one shoots a bag:

It may be a shock to many who have not tasted a wide variety of diving environments and situations, but there are times when one should shoot a bag deeper than 70fsw. For instance, when we are diving the deep wrecks off Canaveral we frequently experience currents exceeding 3 knots. Many times this current extends all the way to the bottom. This current will pull under marker jugs, and I have seen it pull down two poly balls with a combined buoyancy of almost 900 pounds several times. These wrecks are 30+ miles offshore. By the time one would wait until reaching 70fsw on one of the deeper wrecks, you could be almost a half mile from the wreck site. If there is a swell or it begins to whitecap, it makes it that much harder to see a bag. Letting the boat know where I am is my primary concern.

Furthermore, if you have an emergency at depth and want to let the boat and surface support know to get ready to help ASAP, shooting one of these bags from the bottom is not really an option.

Therefore, we have eliminated the Halcyon bag due to its limited performance range and its tendency to fail. On a good day if this happens to you it is just an inconvenience. If this happens to you on a bad day, well...

I am not anti-Halcyon. I use several of their products. However, I will not recommend any product that is seriously flawed. I use the best tools available. Why buy a lift bag that can't lift?

Regards,
Mike

 

[DocRCH]

I have an OMS 9'7" marker that is supposed to have 90# of lift. The dump valve is at the bottom. So far, I haven't had any problem with it. (Has anyone had any problems with one?) Rignt now, I keep it on the side of my backplate.I may shift this to the bottom.


Robert:doctor:

 

[ericfine50]

Mike,

I have also had some water enter into my CC bag and it was stored on the BP. I still keep it, but use the older style carter as my Primary bag.

Take Care,
Eric

 

[trymixdiver]

how about posting a good source for these carter bags.

Andy

 

[omar]

Leisure Pro

 

[FredT]

Their products have a reputation for being bulletproof in the water.

I have a 75 pound "personal float" that has come up from 120 ft starting nearly tight, with anchor and chain attached. Their enclosed pillow bags are considered top of the line by commercial salvors.

IMNSHO ANY closed or semi-closed bag (lift or BC) worthy of going down with me should be able make it to the surface from 100'+ starting tight and flying free without bursting a seam or blowing the OP valve off the unit.

I may be a bit narrow minded, but I've had to use too many improvised bags over the years to like or trust lower quality bags. (trash bags and pillow cases in goodie bags, "gerry cans," etc.)

FT

http://www.carterbag.com/personalfloat.html

 

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by aue-mike
Hi Uncle Pug-
Yes, we now use Carter bags for drifting deco. Many times the visibility in the areas we dive exceeds 100-150 feet so I can watch the bag as it ascends. I use a 100 pound with a 50 pound backup Carter bag. I can watch it as it "lays on its side" as it cruises towards the surface. Ever so often I will stop the reel to allow the top of the bag to right itself and then allow it to continue to the surface. A pain in the ass, but it helps to insure a strong bag hitting the surface for the boat to see.

Hi Mike,
Have you ever had a bag fold over, dump, and come back down to greet you trailing all the line?

I can see where for your purposes an open bag, or at least one that won't pop when it ascends is a necessity as well as a bag that can be let go at depth. Have you found a CC bag that will do the same?

We don't have that wonderful viz here... even if the viz is 30 feet horizontally often you cannot see the surface even when you are 10 feet.... at 70 there is just no way you can watch the bag hit the surface much less deeper. Fortunately inside the protected waters of Puget Sound we are not dealing with the distances, currents or waves that you must deal with.... we just have to deal with the bad viz.

BTW I was going to try and blow a Halcyon bag apart this morning but the dive didn't unfold that way. Saw a Giant Pacific Octopus brooding eggs instead.

 

[aue-mike]

Not an open bottom bag. I make sure to keep enough tension on the line to prevent it from dumping. However, as I mentioned, the square bags do tend to ride up on their side unless you stop them every so often so they can right themselves.

The good visibility has been cool so I can observe the behavior of various bags as they ascend to the surface.

Mike