Liability of Agencies for their instructors??

[Rickk]

Should dive certification agencies be held liable for the actions of their instructors?

A want to be diver starts looking around and sees ads that say something like " Learn to dive the <agency> way" They think that sounds great, I will go with <agency> to learn to dive. They go to the <agency> web site, find a dive shop that has a high star rating from the <agency> and say" That's for me, <agency> certified trainers and high star rating. What can go wrong?"

But as we all know, the <agency> is in the business of issuing certifications and selling learning packages, not in the business of monitoring the quality of their instructors. There are far too many instructors out there. One agency advertises that they have 160,000 certified dive professionals and issue 1,000,000 certifications a year. That is about 6 certifications per professional, no where near enough for an instructor to stay current on teaching methods and changing standards, let alone to provide sufficient revenue to cover <agency> fees, insurance etc. (They did not say if professional included DMs nor what levels of certifications were issued, a lot of difference between an OW or AOW certification and a no dive Nitrox certification in terms of instructor time and revenue.)


Personally I believe that agencies should have some responsibility for the quality of the instructors who issue the certifications on their behalf. I have seen far too many bad new divers, not bad because of inexperience but bad because they were just not taught correctly at the start.


This would be a major change for the agencies, fees would increase, as would the cost of instruction, the number of instructors would drop, and hopefully the quality of instruction would rise and instructors would be able to actually make a living instructing.

Please lets keep the discussion generic as to agency, Lets not bad mouth any specific agency as I believe they are all guilty of turning unsupervised new instructors loose on an unsuspecting public. Some examples will identify the agency to those in the know, but lets not name and shame.

But please feel free to name any agency that does do a good job of monitoring the quality of instruction done in their name and for which they collect fees.

 

[Omisson]

Should dive certification agencies be held liable for the actions of their instructors?

A want to be diver starts looking around and sees ads that say something like " Learn to dive the <agency> way" They think that sounds great, I will go with <agency> to learn to dive. They go to the <agency> web site, find a dive shop that has a high star rating from the <agency> and say" That's for me, <agency> certified trainers and high star rating. What can go wrong?"

But as we all know, the <agency> is in the business of issuing certifications and selling learning packages, not in the business of monitoring the quality of their instructors. There are far too many instructors out there. One agency advertises that they have 160,000 certified dive professionals and issue 1,000,000 certifications a year. That is about 6 certifications per professional, no where near enough for an instructor to stay current on teaching methods and changing standards, let alone to provide sufficient revenue to cover <agency> fees, insurance etc. (They did not say if professional included DMs nor what levels of certifications were issued, a lot of difference between an OW or AOW certification and a no dive Nitrox certification in terms of instructor time and revenue.)


Personally I believe that agencies should have some responsibility for the quality of the instructors who issue the certifications on their behalf. I have seen far too many bad new divers, not bad because of inexperience but bad because they were just not taught correctly at the start.


This would be a major change for the agencies, fees would increase, as would the cost of instruction, the number of instructors would drop, and hopefully the quality of instruction would rise and instructors would be able to actually make a living instructing.

Please lets keep the discussion generic as to agency, Lets not bad mouth any specific agency as I believe they are all guilty of turning unsupervised new instructors loose on an unsuspecting public. Some examples will identify the agency to those in the know, but lets not name and shame.

But please feel free to name any agency that does do a good job of monitoring the quality of instruction done in their name and for which they collect fees.

“Let’s not name agencies” is there any agency that can boast a hundred thousand pros and millions of certs other that PADI?

If you are gonna be a troll and agency bash - at least be honest about it.

That said, tell me you don’t understand either the law, or the dive industry at all without telling me you don’t:

“….that averages to 5-6 certifications per instructor… not enough to stay current….”

First the definition of a dive pro INCLUDES AIs and DMs and other non-certifying members (mermaid instructors, free dive instructors, snorkel leaders). So you are just plain wrong on your number calculations.

Second many pros don’t teach (many are retired, or non-teaching status) but want to keep the rating. This doesn’t meaningfully make your statement useful either. In fact - full-time active instructors probably account for most of the certs but part-time and avocational pros account for most of the pro registrations.

Third, when looking at legal liability the courts decide in large part by the degree of supervision accorded- (vicarious liability and respondent superior for example) - so if agencies got MORE involved in supervision of dive training than they would have MORE liability.

If I go to NYU Medical School - you don’t get to sue the medical school (absent extraordinary circumstances) for the medical malpractice I commit AFTER I am a licensed physician.

It always amazes me to see what the armchair experts have to say about both diving and the law….

 

[happy-diver]

If you can dive, you can be taught
If you can't then so shall it remain