Letting non-certified kids use scuba gear in a pool

[rhwestfall]

and man once they hit 16-17 dad get uncool with a lot of kids.

guess I got lucky!

 

[BRT]

Out of curiosity what are the odds of an embolism happening. Not the physics possibilities because that is 100% but that the kids WILL fail to exhale after doing this many times. If I had to guess,,,,, the parents had monitored the kids in the past until they felt confident they could properly do it safely. At what age do you say that a child is smart enough to do things Like play with darts or run with a stick, or scateboard etc. I was driving grain wagons to market at 12. At 13 I was roaming the country with a shotgun.

My first time driving a tractor between orchards was at age 8. I could stand on and push in the clutch or stand on and push in the brakes but not both at the same time.

 

[TMHeimer]

Out of curiosity what are the odds of an embolism happening. Not the physics possibilities because that is 100% but that the kids WILL fail to exhale after doing this many times. If I had to guess,,,,, the parents had monitored the kids in the past until they felt confident they could properly do it safely. At what age do you say that a child is smart enough to do things Like play with darts or run with a stick, or scateboard etc. I was driving grain wagons to market at 12. At 13 I was roaming the country with a shotgun.

Those activities, though posing some more danger than taking clarinet lessons, don't rank with scuba regarding possibly dying.

 

[homerdoc]

View attachment 520784

guess I got lucky!

awesome.... I hope I do too. We are going to bonaire week of July 4th and she is excited, so I haven't hit that cliff yet

I am just going off what my friends with older kids tell me. Mine is still all about a morning dive just her and I when we are traveling.

Nice ears! WIll show to my daughter.

 

[TMHeimer]

Yeah, you are right. I did read too fast.

I don’t know if I think that scenario is too much different than two just certified adults buddying together right away. At least with an 11 year old in the pair, they are probably limiting themselves to shallower depths. I also think that the vast majority of new divers start slow by diving in organized groups, with a trained pro (or two) guiding, and gaining experience and confidence gradually. I have trained a lot of younger divers, and off the top of my head the youngest are always attached to an experience adult. New diver adults may show up with teen son in tow, but I don’t think I have ever had one with a 10/11/12 year old. There’s is a certain amount of self selection and self regulation going on keeping all ages safe.

I don't believe that the vast majority of new divers in our area dive in groups. We do have a dive club, but mostly I see buddy pairs when diving here. Certainly no regular groups that always include a pro. And I'm sure it's a lot safer for children (certified or not) to dive or to breathe in 3 foot pool water with and experienced parent, pro, or group right there. But I doubt that always happens. An accident during a "safe" child dive is probably very rare, but in other situations, probably not so rare. But I know of no statistics other than the stories people have told here.

 

[Charles Graves]

I think that the kids do need to be trained on the equipment and understand the risks and the science before doing it, yes.

But, I think you can sit down with your kids for 10 minutes and explain the science of it to them *enough for them to scuba in a 12 foot pool just to try the gera out*. I dont think that you need to have them do a full 2-day scuba cert course just to try it in the pool.

(Note: I did a "discover scuba" thing that was a little shady, in Puerto Rico, where somebody just showed me for 15 minutes what the scuba gear was and what it did, before we went into a shallow bay part of the ocean and swam for like 20 minutes. In my opinion, it was amazing and I felt pretty safe. Now I am a certified cave diver. It was pretty common sense to me. I guess if your kids are not very smart, you might need to have them do the class. But if your kids are intelligent, a 15 minute explanatory thing before a pool dive or super shallow, calm shore dive in a bay with no waves is perfectly fine.)

I also dont ascribe to the notion that the only good education can come from an official setting, like a classroom.

Again, I support the whole "only certifications can come from licensed agencies" thing. Of course, to be officially certified and to buy any gear or dive off boats, you need a certification from a licensed agency. I agree with that. And I also believe in the "do things with your family at YOUR OWN RISK" thing. BUT, I think that at the end of the day, a family should be able to educate their children. If a father cant show his sons how to scuba dive with a very basic thing in their backyard pool, then honestly, we have failed as parents or as a society. Family bonds are important, and parents must be teachers of their children.

For example, imagine this scenario: A dad/mom sits down with their kids and says "Ok look kids, I want to show you how scuba works. The most important rule of scuba is, NEVER HOLD YOUR BREATH, ASCEND SLOWLY (1 FOOT PER SECOND OR SLOWER), AND NEVER ASCEND WITH A FULL BREATH OF AIR, EVER. This is a regulator, you breathe out of it. These are fins, you kick with them. This is your inflate/deflate valve, and here's how it works and what it does. You need to inflate to get more air and which will make you rise or level off, and deflate to take air out, this makes you fall or level off. You sink with less air, you float with more air. Also, never put air in when you are going to surface, unless you are badly under-inflated and only inflate just enough to be almost (but not quite) neutrally buoyant. You want to be rising from your kicking, not from air in your BCD. Remember when you finish at the bottom, come up slowly, and DO NOT HOLD YOUR BREATH, because if you do, the air in your lungs can overexpand and cause you to die from lung injury. You need to ascend slowly without holding breath." Yada, yada, yada.

I think in this scenario, it would be fine. I mean, you have just TAUGHT the kids. You have educated them enough to do it in 12 feet of water. (Especially if you go down and dive with them.)

Again... is it 100% risk free? No, but nothing in life is. I do think its 99.999% reasonably safe to do that though, especially in a shallow pool. I don't think we should be that obsessed with paperwork/government/bureaucracy that we say "Ok, kids are never safe unless they take an official class."

Now again, if the kids were doing a dive in the ocean or in a quarry, YES THEY NEED TO BE CERTIFIED, 100%! But just a 12 foot pool? Come on, hombre, lol

 

[Sam Miller III]

I have two old Heros
@Scuba Lawyer , NAUI Instructor SSI 5000 diver and my Scuba Lawyer
@Lake Hickory Scuba ,As of 2019 a new SSI Pro 5000 diver

I just discovered several new heroes
@wetb4igetinthewater
@Ana
@caruso
@Saniflush
@homerdoc
@Charles Graves
@DEEPCBOSS
(Spontaneous Pneumothorax- Air trapped in the intercostal space IDed via "crackling" sound
Air Embolism- over expansion - air in blood stream - RX recompression )

All of you That a boy ! Keep up the informative posting - certainly appreciated

Sam Miller, 111

 

[caruso]

I have two old Heros
@Scuba Lawyer , NAUI Instructor SSI 5000 diver and my Scuba Lawyer
@Lake Hickory Scuba ,As of 2019 a new SSI Pro 5000 diver

I just discovered several new heroes
@caruso
Air Embolism- over expansion - air in blood stream - RX recompression )

All of you That a boy ! Keep up the informative posting - certainly appreciated

Sam Miller

@Sam Miller III

I'm..thanks? I've never been called a hero by a scuba legend. Or anyone else for that matter. Except for maybe my kids when they were young. Then again I suspect a note of sarcasm -given the embolism reference - but I can't be sure. You don't seem like the type.

 

[Sam Miller III]

@carouso,

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hombre.
The comment was from the heart based on many years of experience.
I am 100 percent in favor of children to become involved in water activities
FYI
I was unware that I was a "SCUBA Legend" until several years ago I woke up and that was my title on SCUBA Board. Again that you for considering me as a SCUBA Legend

I will PM you about my diving experiences which just my shed a small amount of light on my years of numerous contributions to diving

Cheers from California where it all began

SAM

 

[Scuba Lawyer]

@Sam Miller IIII'm..thanks? I've never been called a hero by a scuba legend. Or anyone else for that matter. Except for maybe my kids when they were young. Then again I suspect a note of sarcasm -given the embolism reference - but I can't be sure. You don't seem like the type.

If my old dive buddy for the past 40 years @Sam Miller III says you're a hero then he means it. If he takes issue with you, you will clearly know it. Sam is one of the few 100% genuine folks I know and i am proud to have had many many underwater and topside adventures with him (a few we just really shouldn't talk about - but they were really really fun!). M