Letting non-certified kids use scuba gear in a pool

[TMHeimer]

I don't know about other agencies, but the PADI guidelines say that the 10 & 11 year olds need to be buddied with either a parent or a dive professional, NOT with each other. Age 12 through 14 needs to be buddied with an adult. Only at age 15 are they okay to dive buddied with a peer. (Good luck getting your parents to allow that regardless of what PADI says...)

And the key to what is an appropriate age lies in the hands of the parent that is signing their little treasure up for class, and double signing all of the release forms. I require both signatories to actually read what they are signing, and if the parent(s) are not divers themselves with make an extra effort to be sure they understand the dive environment. Diving requires maturity more than it requires age, and that is up the mom & dad to decide. I usually find they are better more attentive students when they are younger, and the problems arise in those middle teen years when they are starting to test their boundaries, and stretch their attention.

Yes I know the youngsters must be buddied with a parent. Think you mis-read. I was saying that sometimes the parent and child get OW certified at the same time (probably in the same class) and the parent and child then can buddy together to a depth of 40'. Both have 0 dives after certification and neither has Rescue cert. skills, perhaps not even CPR.
I definitely agree that younger students are for sure more attentive than 15 year olds, having taught both ages extensively as a Band teacher. IMO that doesn't mean that the attentive 11 year old is more capable of handling a true dive emergency than the squirrely 15 year old.

 

[JackD342]

Yes I know the youngsters must be buddied with a parent. Think you mis-read. I was saying that sometimes the parent and child get OW certified at the same time (probably in the same class) and the parent and child then can buddy together to a depth of 40'. Both have 0 dives after certification and neither has Rescue cert. skills, perhaps not even CPR.
I definitely agree that younger students are for sure more attentive than 15 year olds, having taught both ages extensively as a Band teacher. IMO that doesn't mean that the attentive 11 year old is more capable of handling a true dive emergency than the squirrely 15 year old.

Yeah, you are right. I did read too fast.

I don’t know if I think that scenario is too much different than two just certified adults buddying together right away. At least with an 11 year old in the pair, they are probably limiting themselves to shallower depths. I also think that the vast majority of new divers start slow by diving in organized groups, with a trained pro (or two) guiding, and gaining experience and confidence gradually. I have trained a lot of younger divers, and off the top of my head the youngest are always attached to an experience adult. New diver adults may show up with teen son in tow, but I don’t think I have ever had one with a 10/11/12 year old. There’s is a certain amount of self selection and self regulation going on keeping all ages safe.

 

[Saniflush]

I'll throw my personal .02 in.

I have let both of my kids breath off a regulator in the shallow end (3') of our pool multiple times but always with me there personally supervising. They both love it and cannot wait to get certified so they can dive with Mrs Flush and I, however the oldest is 11 and not nearly focused enough to be safe so we have put a moratorium on her getting certified until we feel like she is. The other one is our detailed child and if everything remains the same I would have no problem starting his training the day he turns 10 in another year. They are completely different kids and IMO need to be treated differently because of that. My hope is that Flush 2.0 will be focused enough to be safe by the time that Flush 2.1 is but we will see. It is amazing to see how kids change so rapidly and in another year they could have completely flip flopped in their focus.

 

[rhwestfall]

One on one, and with proper supervision, I am not overly concerned.

That being said, in no way would I do this with a group or allow it unsupervised....

Also, she was swimming competitively at 3, so water does not concern her. I have had her free dive to 50' to me when I was on SCUBA, and have drifted by her sitting on a rock on the bottom in the River. She got certified years later.

YMMV

 

[Fat Daddy]

My OP was not about what age to allow a kid to get certified, it was to point out that the act of letting young kids without training breathe off scuba gear in a pool is not safe. For every instructor or very experienced diver teaching their kids intro to scuba in their pool there's 50 more just letting them go at it with the parent not even considering they can suffer a lung expansion injury. That's my target audience and that's the type of ignorance I'm trying to address. I've educated several people on the danger and they've cut it out.

You can do what you want with your kids. I decided while my daughters were growing up that I wouldn't let them breathe off a regulator at any depth until they were old enough to get certified. For my oldest that age was 13, and she's doing great. Maybe I'm just overly concerned as I have been at 165 ft in a hyberbaric chamber attending while doctors were working on a convulsing and dying mermaid from Weeki Wachee springs trying to save her life after an air embolism. And she was in her 20's and trained. Like I said, in the 80's when I learned to dive there was a police officer who's young son died in 4 ft of water due to an air embolism. It was a long time ago but I do believe he was a diver for the department. It can happen no matter how safe you think you're being with your child.

If you're going to allow your kids to do this at least find out where the closest hyperbaric chamber is because in the case of an air embolism you're going to need to get there really really quickly.

Jason

 

[TMHeimer]

My OP was not about what age to allow a kid to get certified, it was to point out that the act of letting young kids without training breathe off scuba gear in a pool is not safe. For every instructor or very experienced diver teaching their kids intro to scuba in their pool there's 50 more just letting them go at it with the parent not even considering they can suffer a lung expansion injury. That's my target audience and that's the type of ignorance I'm trying to address. I've educated several people on the danger and they've cut it out.

You can do what you want with your kids. I decided while my daughters were growing up that I wouldn't let them breathe off a regulator at any depth until they were old enough to get certified. For my oldest that age was 13, and she's doing great. Maybe I'm just overly concerned as I have been at 165 ft in a hyberbaric chamber attending while doctors were working on a convulsing and dying mermaid from Weeki Wachee springs trying to save her life after an air embolism. And she was in her 20's and trained. Like I said, in the 80's when I learned to dive there was a police officer who's young son died in 4 ft of water due to an air embolism. It was a long time ago but I do believe he was a diver for the department. It can happen no matter how safe you think you're being with your child.

If you're going to allow your kids to do this at least find out where the closest hyperbaric chamber is because in the case of an air embolism you're going to need to get there really really quickly.

Jason

Sorry to derail the thread a bit. I guess my reply was to show how absurd it is IMO to put uncertified youngsters on scuba in a pool when I am so against even certifying 11 year olds.
My last "tangent" will be to say how awful it would be for a parent who is a new OW diver to die because a new diver child couldn't rescue the parent and have a lifetime to live with that.
A certified friend of mine introduced his wife to scuba. I asked her what the lesson was like. She said "Bob handed me the regulator mouthpiece and said breathe from this thing". Of course I realize this wouldn't be the approach a Master Instructor would take with his/her child.

 

[wedivebc]

i remember reading a story about a kid asking his diver dad if he could take a tank into the pool for some harmless fun. the dad went out to the pool later only to find his son unconsious at the bottom. Dad was able to recusitate the boy luckily but found that the child had attached a regulator to an argon tank.
Untrained people just don't know what they don't know.

 

[Marie13]

The chamber at Lutheran General Hospital is the emergency chamber for the Chicago area. The guy who runs it gives a very good presentation before you take an (educational) chamber ride.

There was a woman in the 1990s who was treated after a lung expansion injury. She was in 4ft of water, stood up suddenly, and boom! She and her husband were in certification class at the Y. They were practicing buddy breathing. At one point, the husband wouldn’t give his wife the reg. That’s when she stood up.

 

[NAM001]

One should always take safety precautions whether around or in water - period. I don't see how decompression issues could happen in a pool but drowning is another story. I will let the SB medical experts advise. I say DIVE safe and SWIM safe - always.

BTW - hope your family has a blast in Bonaire. Was there a few weeks ago. I wish I had been to Bonaire diving in my teens.

Cheers
Darrell

I think the concern is not decompressiion but air expansion and lung rupture issues from holding breath and surfacing.

 

[NAM001]

Begin rant

I own a pool store in SW FL and am amazed at the number of people who let their non-certified young kids breath off scuba gear sitting at the bottom of their pool. I've also worked in a hyperbaric chamber at Shands Hospital while going to school and have worked in the chamber with people who've suffered terrible lung expansion injuries. It's not safe to allow kids to do this.

My 13 yr old just did her pool work as part of her certification she's getting now. She's never taken a breath off a regulator at any depth until her pool work.

I actually have had some debates about the safety of letting your kids do this and have had people call their local dive store and have been told by some stores it's perfectly safe. Air expansion is not linear and the greatest expansion takes place in the last 6 ft of water. Back when I learned to dive in NJ in the 80's a local law enforcement officer had his young son die after taking a breath off scuba in 4 ft of water and then he stood up. Young kids aren't old enough to understand the danger, and I find parents look at their 12,000 gallon pool and think absolutely nothing can go wrong doing this.

My daughter has loved her lessons and course work so far and will take her checkout dives in Bonaire in about 10 days. While I know diving is a safe sport, sometimes things can go wrong. I'll do my best to keep her safe and encourage continued training and if something happens it would be devastating. If she died in my pool from an air embolism I wouldn't be able to live with myself.

End rant

Jason

Out of curiosity what are the odds of an embolism happening. Not the physics possibilities because that is 100% but that the kids WILL fail to exhale after doing this many times. If I had to guess,,,,, the parents had monitored the kids in the past until they felt confident they could properly do it safely. At what age do you say that a child is smart enough to do things Like play with darts or run with a stick, or scateboard etc. I was driving grain wagons to market at 12. At 13 I was roaming the country with a shotgun.