Letting non-certified kids use scuba gear in a pool

[TMHeimer]

I agree completely. "Young kids aren't old enough to understand the danger"--absolutely!
Then again, I am in a very small minority who feel that no one under 15 should do scuba or be certified to do it. I base this on both my experience with kids 11-14 as a step father observing my 2 step daughters back then-- and on 19 years of teaching Band to mostly kids of that age, including seeing tons of kids 6th grade age who are extremely "mature" for their age. 15 is, IMHO, an iffy age, though I THINK I would have been OK at that age myself.
There is plenty of time for scuba when older--no limit on snorkeling though and I thoroughly encourage it at very young ages. Sorry for the "tangent" rant.

 

[BlueTrin]

Agree, but......

When my dad was teaching me to dive in the 60's (mind you he was not a dive instructor - just a guy who learned the "proper" way to dive from a pamphlet that came with his scuba tank more than a decade earlier), he would toss a tank and reg in the deep end of the pool and have me swim down, take a few breaths then make an emergency "blow and go" swimming ascent. Time after time, rinse and repeat. My 7 year old self must have done that drill 50 times. I thought it fun. Now I know I likely dodged a bullet, but at least I was taught the reason for exhaling on ascent and was very comfortable doing it. .

Fast forward a bunch of decades and I take my then 7-year old son to a birthday pool party. The birthday boy's father (who I had never met before) has an Aluminum 80 on the bottom with an adapter and 4 second stages coming off the 1st stage. Twelve little kids with ZERO instruction are doing the dive down, breathe and surface game. Some of the other moms and dads there thought it looked like fun and were encouraging their little darlings to participate. I read that dad the riot act and told him that it was dangerous and why it was dangerous (including a short lesson in gas expansion laws, barotrauma, etc...) and advised his financial liability for the death of one of the children would be astronomical. That father told me in a very loud authoritative voice so that all the other parents could hear that I had no clue what I was talking about, that I was just plain stupid, and he told me to leave his house as "ignorant" people were not permitted on his property. My son wasn't very happy but we left. An hour later (apparently after he changed the tank out for a fresh one) a little 8 year old girl surfaced spitting up blood and was taken to the hospital. Thankfully she survived but the civil verdict against the father far exceeded the amount of his homeowner's liability insurance coverage. Plus the punitive damages against the father for "conscious disregard" of the safety of the children was not dischargeable in bankruptcy and he ended up losing his house. I guess stupid people weren't permitted on his property either.

I have no problem with having a young child breathe off a tank in a pool as long as you are right there with them and they are at least old enough to understand not to ever hold their breath. My rant is over. M

That rant fitted your nickname. Very sad story though.

 

[Steve_C]

I know a guy that besides doing plenty of other uncertified stuff
has conducted kids in pools 10-12 year old kids older kids adults
even the parents of the kids before the kids, the parents trust the
the guy and perhaps more importantly they really trust their kids.

And the grandparents even trusted the kids and the grand kids
and the guy when they went in for some breathing in the pool too

but all these folks had the fortune of growing up with motorbikes
and skiing, all of them including jet, and fishing boats and surfing
and swimming and chainsaws and building and digging and tools
and cleaning up after the dog

and snorkelling

Trusting somebody who does not know what they are doing is risky. We've had six deaths so far this year in NC due to rip tides all involving people with somebody they trusted. All could have been avoided if they heeded warning flags and knew anything about how to read currents and waves on a family beach.

Your point is what?

All of the above can be done safely and in high risk manners.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Fabien Cousteau started diving when he was 4, but I guess Grandpa knew was he was doing.

 

[Lake Hickory Scuba]

Begin rant

I own a pool store in SW FL and am amazed at the number of people who let their non-certified young kids breath off scuba gear sitting at the bottom of their pool. I've also worked in a hyperbaric chamber at Shands Hospital while going to school and have worked in the chamber with people who've suffered terrible lung expansion injuries. It's not safe to allow kids to do this.

My 13 yr old just did her pool work as part of her certification she's getting now. She's never taken a breath off a regulator at any depth until her pool work.

I actually have had some debates about the safety of letting your kids do this and have had people call their local dive store and have been told by some stores it's perfectly safe. Air expansion is not linear and the greatest expansion takes place in the last 6 ft of water. Back when I learned to dive in NJ in the 80's a local law enforcement officer had his young son die after taking a breath off scuba in 4 ft of water and then he stood up. Young kids aren't old enough to understand the danger, and I find parents look at their 12,000 gallon pool and think absolutely nothing can go wrong doing this.

My daughter has loved her lessons and course work so far and will take her checkout dives in Bonaire in about 10 days. While I know diving is a safe sport, sometimes things can go wrong. I'll do my best to keep her safe and encourage continued training and if something happens it would be devastating. If she died in my pool from an air embolism I wouldn't be able to live with myself.

End rant

Jason

Hello @Fat Daddy, first I would like to say I understand where you are coming from, especially for the average child with the average parent who is the average diver. However, there are many exceptions to this rule. There are many children that grow up in the scuba industry, such as both of my daughters, where their parents are dive professionals and they start well before they are old enough to get certified. Just as I started when I was only 6 years old, so did my oldest daughter. Under the proper supervision, I have never believed that a child is in any more danger of injury, while breathing on a regulator at depth, than to someone who is certified. My oldest daughter, who is 7 now, teaches her 2nd grade class diving physics. She fully understands Boyle's Law, Henry's Law, Dalton's Law, Charles's Law, and even Archimedes’ Principle. To take it one step further, she can even calculate the correct amount of partial pressure of O2 a diver needs for the best mix at depth, while diving Nitrox. She has recently been working on calculating her own personal SAC rate. I believe children under the proper tutelage can and do have the skills necessary to dive safely, especially in a pool environment. My 7-year-old routinely will scoot around the pool while I am teaching new Open Water Students. All this being said, our situation is not common for the typical diver. I commend you on wanting to keep not only your child safe but others as well, but to make a blanketed statement that "Young kids aren't old enough to understand the danger," (of scuba diving), I disagree with. I encourage many of our (parent) divers to introduce their children to Scuba Diving. The parent is not necessarily teaching the child how to dive, but they are capable to teach their child the principle behind Boyle's Law. I relate the teaching of my children scuba diving, to the same area as teaching my children the basic knowledge they learn in school. The teachers at my daughter's school are there to reinforce the skills and knowledge we teach them at home. I do not solely rely on the teachers to teach my children the ways of the world, basic arithmetic, grammar, etc. etc. So, to end this response, I believe parents hold the ultimate authority on when they feel their child is mature enough to learn. Some children simply mature faster than others (both physically and mentally). So why hold them back. I wish your daughter all the best in completing her certification, and I know that both you and her will have many great diving adventures together. Sincerely, Bryan.

 

[flyboy08]

Under appropriate supervision, this is a great way to get kids interested in diving....no different than a young eagle flight.

 

[homerdoc]

I agree completely. "Young kids aren't old enough to understand the danger"--absolutely!
Then again, I am in a very small minority who feel that no one under 15 should do scuba or be certified to do it. I base this on both my experience with kids 11-14 as a step father observing my 2 step daughters back then-- and on 19 years of teaching Band to mostly kids of that age, including seeing tons of kids 6th grade age who are extremely "mature" for their age. 15 is, IMHO, an iffy age, though I THINK I would have been OK at that age myself.
There is plenty of time for scuba when older--no limit on snorkeling though and I thoroughly encourage it at very young ages. Sorry for the "tangent" rant.

I can see your point but disagree, my daughter got certified at 11. I have seen kids that make me cringe getting resort trained, but we developed a mantra of all the key safety rules - the number one we talked about is never hold your breath. I also think it is who trains them is the key we have a wonderful local dive shop.

I think the best thing our dive instructor drilled home and I carried on is you can turn a dive for anytime for any reason. I was looking at our computers the other day at really old dives and you cant believe the number of of 3 to 10 minute dives we did. She can still surprise me and turn at 20 minutes but not often. She is more often than not north of 45 minutes now. We always talk about why we did, ears, nervous whatever, and I am cool with it.

That being said, I right now would only let her dive with me or three instructors I know at the LDS.

I'm just bringing this up because, if I had waited till 15, I would have missed 4 wonderful years of diving with her, and man once they hit 16-17 dad get uncool with a lot of kids.

JJ

 

[TMHeimer]

Lake Hickory, I certainly see your points, and of course you are way more experienced than I. I'm afraid no amount of logic will ever change my mind, which is probably my fault. I can always throw out questions like-- Has your oldest daughter (or any youngster you've known) been in a life threatening situation diving? Perhaps a 7 year old (or certified 12 year old) would do just fine. Don't know for sure, as in 14 years I haven't been there myself. I could also point out that teachers doing a thorough job teaching academics and anything else in school is not the same thing as youngsters scuba diving. You can't die playing the trumpet (well, probably not.....).

homerdoc, Yes, I guess your 11 year old knows her stuff and is much better off than the "resort trained". And she'll get (got?) those 4 extra years diving before my recommended age of 15. And yeah, the "uncool" thing that may be upcoming. But, most kids (not me for some reason) want to drive years before age 16 and we don't let them. In fact, many places have long ago made the process of getting a full license longer with the "graduated" stages when you first get the license.
It will always be my opinion that it's safer to wait.

What think you guys about parent and 11 year old getting certified at the same time and then diving as buddies (to 40') right off the bat? Without any experience after OW course, and no Rescue skills, maybe even not knowing CPR. It's a related question anyway.

 

[Ana]

My 2 sons learned to swim before they could walk, by the time they turned 6-7 they could freedive to 20 feet but I didn't introduce them to scuba until much later at 12 or so. They were happy in the ocean racing each other vertically and horizontally, never felt the need to add scuba early on and they didn't ask either.

Like everything else, what works for me may not be for everyone else.

 

[JackD342]

Lake Hickory, I certainly see your points, and of course you are way more experienced than I. I'm afraid no amount of logic will ever change my mind, which is probably my fault. I can always throw out questions like-- Has your oldest daughter (or any youngster you've known) been in a life threatening situation diving? Perhaps a 7 year old (or certified 12 year old) would do just fine. Don't know for sure, as in 14 years I haven't been there myself. I could also point out that teachers doing a thorough job teaching academics and anything else in school is not the same thing as youngsters scuba diving. You can't die playing the trumpet (well, probably not.....).

homerdoc, Yes, I guess your 11 year old knows her stuff and is much better off than the "resort trained". And she'll get (got?) those 4 extra years diving before my recommended age of 15. And yeah, the "uncool" thing that may be upcoming. But, most kids (not me for some reason) want to drive years before age 16 and we don't let them. In fact, many places have long ago made the process of getting a full license longer with the "graduated" stages when you first get the license.
It will always be my opinion that it's safer to wait.

What think you guys about parent and 11 year old getting certified at the same time and then diving as buddies (to 40') right off the bat? Without any experience after OW course, and no Rescue skills, maybe even not knowing CPR. It's a related question anyway.

I don't know about other agencies, but the PADI guidelines say that the 10 & 11 year olds need to be buddied with either a parent or a dive professional, NOT with each other. Age 12 through 14 needs to be buddied with an adult. Only at age 15 are they okay to dive buddied with a peer. (Good luck getting your parents to allow that regardless of what PADI says...)

And the key to what is an appropriate age lies in the hands of the parent that is signing their little treasure up for class, and double signing all of the release forms. I require both signatories to actually read what they are signing, and if the parent(s) are not divers themselves with make an extra effort to be sure they understand the dive environment. Diving requires maturity more than it requires age, and that is up the mom & dad to decide. I usually find they are better more attentive students when they are younger, and the problems arise in those middle teen years when they are starting to test their boundaries, and stretch their attention.