Lets Talk Wing Construction

[Schwob]

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The only thing that is probably a thing in terms of durability that does go to the laminated inner bladders is they are less prone to pinch flat, but that's operator error when you pinch the bladder between the tank and the deck. Pay attention and you'll be fine.
Again, this is not something that I personally would use as a buying decision.

Well, I hate to disagree with @tbone1004 On anything scuba related and if I did and reflected on it I probably end up siding with him in the end, because compared to me he really knows his sh.t. I am just a way to infrequent hobby diver with very limited experience and with that very little of my also limited knowledge is backed up buy sufficient practical experience.

So, I dare to disagree a little on that pinch felt errors are avoidable user errors.
In principle, that is entirely correct. However, on an LOB (my experience is limited to two) tanks + BCDs/BP&Wings are often handled by crew. Mostly refilled by the rack / bench where you gear up, but on one of my LOBs (A wooden banca, big for a banca, but tiny for a usual LOB, compressor, but no banked gas), they changed tanks. So anyway on the latter I dove a BP& appropriately sized wing.Less worries there, but I always tried to change myself because of a prior experience. On a 22 or so diver capacity LOB, where they had banked gas and always filled in the bench/rack w/o changing tanks (unless something was wrong), I must have gotten my air bladder In the Wing on my then BCD (billed as super tough) pinched. Found only out when thouroughly rinsing the bladder after getting home. Not good when water streams out of the bladder where it should not. That BCD (wing style) really had a wing that is way too big for single tank diving. Beginner gear choice error. You could even use it for doubling up two AL 80s... Anyway, all that extra volume can go places when deflated and even if you watch it carefully, it is not always possible to watch everybody handling your gear. Maybe a rare experience, but I am worried about pinch flats ever since...
That said, Personally, I‘d think hard before spending more money on. Singles wing than say the DGX wing and would only do so if the chosen wing had an attribute I‘d like in practice. E.g. more streamlined at chosen volume (a lot here seem to like VDH wings for that reason). Not sure how I would determine that other than by the opinion of others (here). I am also not sure how to judge longevity of the cover or bladder, Bose for regular use as well as abuse...
Another area where gear gets abused is when TSA (or foreign equivalent) repacks your gear after luggage inspection a whole lot less carefully and cushioned than you did. My pinch flat could possibly also have come from that sort of „throw it all back in“ repacking, Alhough I of course had no heavy tank in the luggage... Which is another reason why ever since all my essential gear is (at least on the trip to the destination) in my carry on.

 

[JahJahwarrior]

I bought my first tech wing as a several year old, instructor used and abused Dive Rite classic without any armored fabric. I used it for a decade without any issues, and gave it to someone to keep being used. Sure, it was pretty scratched up, but not broken, still in perfect working shape.

My sidemount wing has the armored outside portion, and I think my CCR wing has some too, but my doubles wing is just nylon.

I'm sure you will be happy with any of those wings. If the wing was pinch flatted while on a trip, I'm sure the dive shop can help patch it up with some old scrap parts in their repair room and aquaseal. Pick the one which best matches the lift you want and comes in the color you like.

The only issue I have with wings is the inflator corroding because of poor rinsing maintenance. I end up diving with manual inflating by mouth every once in a few years, but that would happen with any manufacturer, problem is my own.

 

[drakcheslav]

Good info on wing construction!! Thanks!

Based on this info, if I wanted a 30 pound lift wing, what would the trade-offs be, if I was to purchase the popular DGX S1 wing over the more costly wings?

You wouldn't have the big brand (although the DGX wing is an older Dive Rite wing, and it's a copy of an Apeks WTX 30) on your wing, and it will work fine.

I dive one, and I'm more than enough content with it.
I use a 15l steel tank usually.

One think I don't like is the DGX webbing is super stiff and rough.

 

[D_Fresh]

I didn’t see VDH wings mentioned, or did I miss it?

I did not see the VDH Argonaut mentioned either, which I am very curious about. I'm holding up my new kit (currently in the US) waiting for @Bryan@Vintage Double Hose to get them in stock again before shipping it all out to me in Philippines..... (I know he's a busy guy and being pulled 6 ways to Sunday right now)

 

[lowwall]

As if you needed another choice, for made-in-the-US gear don't forget Light Monkey. I just bought the Light Monkey Singles Wing. After 7 dives so far I have no regrets. I also have a Halcyon Eclipse which I also use. That is also a great wing but obviously VERY expensive. I wanted a high quality second wing and wanted one made in the US. I decided to go with the LM.

https://www.lightmonkey.us/wings-c1vtx

No tank band slots, so requires an STA. Not sure why you'd give up the option.

Which leads us to...

I didn’t see VDH wings mentioned, or did I miss it?

Made in the US and has tank band slots and built in fabric roll control tabs for a stable fit without an STA. I don't even bolt mine on the plate. Very nice quality and very streamlined.

Bladder is "400 denier urethane". Shell is a mix of "1000D CORDURA® / DWR / PU Coated" and "1680 denier urethane coated".

Price is $240-$255 depending on size. This is a great deal for a premium wing. Store | Vintage Double Hose

The only issue is availability. VDH is a small (one-man?) operation and can't afford to sit on inventory so he has these made in small batches. I'd check with him to see when he's getting more in.

 

[Divin'Papaw]

No tank band slots, so requires an STA. Not sure why you'd give up the option.

I have zero desire to use a wing without an STA. Too unstable for my tastes. I actually prefer a wing without cam band slots. To me it's a pro not a con. The DSS wing had the built in tank stabilizers which made it a viable option. Sounds like VDH (never heard of it until this thread) has built in stabilizers as well. However, after using the DSS setup for years and moving to an STA I personally far prefer to use an STA.

 

[lowwall]

I have zero desire to use a wing without an STA. Too unstable for my tastes. I actually prefer a wing without cam band slots. To me it's a pro not a con. The DSS wing had the built in tank stabilizers which made it a viable option. Sounds like VDH (never heard of it until this thread) has built in stabilizers as well. However, after using the DSS setup for years and moving to an STA I personally far prefer to use an STA.

The only wings I've used are from DSS and VDH, so I've never had experienced stability issues. But is there a stability advantage to an STA over bolting the wing to the plate? I do understand there are reasons for using an STA, but, as I said, I'm trying to understand why someone would give up the option of diving without it.

 

[Divin'Papaw]

The only wings I've used are from DSS and VDH, so I've never had experienced stability issues. But is there a stability advantage to an STA over bolting the wing to the plate? I do understand there are reasons for using an STA, but, as I said, I'm trying to understand why someone would give up the option of diving without it.

For many years I was regularly switching between doubles and singles. I do that less now but still want to have that option. With an STA you can use the exact same backplate for both doubles and singles without any reconfiguration whatsoever. You cannot do this if you have a backplate configured with threaded cam bands designed to work with a wing with cam band slots. To use that same plate with doubles you must remove the cam bands and then re-install them later to use the plate with singes again. It gets to be a royal pain in the neck especially if you switch regularly.

Another benefit is the added centerline weight. An STA can be used to add weight that is perfectly centered and spread along the length of the tank and the diver’s spine. This is ideal with respect to ensuring solid horizontal trim.

Those are the two benefits to an STA and both were important to me which is why I moved away from STA-less wings.

Of course everyone has different drivers. You need to make the decision that works best for you. But these are the reasons I went to wings exclusively designed to work with an STA. They are the best tools for the job I want my wings to do.

 

[D_Fresh]

Regarding the STA, I plan on trying a two piece STA and using only the bottom one, similar to the ever-famous Freedom Plate. The wing will be either the VDH Argonaut or OMS wing, both of which have built in stabilizers. My goal is to keep the cylinder as close to the body as possible, but with a little kick-out at the bottom to keep it off my butt, and leave room for a butt-plate. The nice thing about the two-piece STA is the ability to experiment with it and see what works best... no STA, Bottom only, or Both pieces.

For what it's worth, I'm tropical diving with 6 lbs on a soft plate, moving to SS, so weight is not an issue in my case.

 

[tbone1004]

The only wings I've used are from DSS and VDH, so I've never had experienced stability issues. But is there a stability advantage to an STA over bolting the wing to the plate? I do understand there are reasons for using an STA, but, as I said, I'm trying to understand why someone would give up the option of diving without it.

no stability advantage, if anything there is a stability advantage to the STA-less design as it brings the center of mass closer to the center.
The main advantage of STA's is ease of changing tanks over on a bucking boat if you have a STA on both tanks *super nice btw*, and ease of switching a plate between singles/doubles/ccr.