Lets see what happens with this statement

[discrepancy]

Diving should be like formation flying. Each diver is a pilot...Before leaving the ground there is a briefing. There is a plan...There is a charted course.

Of course all fliers fly to a plan. Divers and fliers share (or should share) similar attitudes to life and death. A diver is in charge of his or her own destiny, just like a command pilot in a single seat aircraft.

For divers and aviators, when something goes dramatically wrong, there is no engineering or technical committee to consult. You deal with it then and there. Boy scouts are always prepared, but well-trained pilots and divers go one step further by constantly practising for that one-in-a-million emergency. Trained military pilots spend more time practising emergencies than they do flying circuits. Why not divers? The consequences of failure are the same.

Whaddya mean failure? Well, sh** happens all the time.
- What if my first stage failed at 120' ? (highly unlikely, but what if it did?)
- What if my buddy's first stage failed?
- What if that stressed moron thrashing about in front of me kicks my reg out just when I'm not expecting it? (maybe I should see what's happening and expect it)
- My buddy doesn't look comfortable coming down the anchor line. What if he's about to blow an eardrum?

The more we think about these things beforehand, the better prepared we are to deal with the problem if it happens. Just like defensive driving.

Where does this leave the buddy theory? There are many complexities here, and I would just remind all concerned that diving with a buddy does not guarantee you life. And diving without a competent buddy does not mean instant death. Safety is our own responsibility.

However, all things said, buddies are good and I would rather dive with a trusted buddy than dive alone. Experience is a great teacher. I want to gather as much as I can and live to tell the tale.

P.S. One parting thought. Would you rather dive with a buddy who just looks at you doe-eyed expecting you to know everything before descending, or with a buddy who is well-prepared and speaks frankly to you beforehand about what each of you is going to do if x, y or z goes wrong?

 

[PerroneFord]

The priciple problem is in perception. What has been described to me as "team diving" by DIR divers is what I view as buddy reliance in some cases.

If a DIR expert can comment to say "the DIR divers you heard from were misinformed, we do take 2 reels, 2 lift bags, 2 lights, 2 cutting devices, etc." then I will be the first to say I stand corrected and will need to research more. If not, it just means the DIR concept is not for me and not because I don't understand it.

--Matt

This bit cleared up my understanding of your thinking. Thank you for sharing it, and I do see where you are coming from. I don't have the experience to agree or disagree, but at least I understand your thought process now.

 

[pants!]

Hm.. lost/incapacitated buddy scenarios are definitely something considered when planning a dive (talking DIR here).

IMO it's pretty unlikely that your buddy will disappear AND your lift bag will blow a seam, but that in itself is not life-threatening. When I carry a reel, I also carry a safety spool... if my spool is broken when I try to deploy an SMB I will use the reel instead..

I carry 3 lights and 2 cutting devices..

I'm not sure you carry more redundant gear than a properly outfitted DIR diver, matt. Self-reliance is important. Buddy-reliance is not a part of the system. The buddy is there as MORE gas, MORE brain power, MORE spare gear, etc.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Losing a buddy during a dive to an accident, crazy currents, whatever, is not a death sentence for a DIR diver. It means that your resources and options are now more limited than they were before, but you still have sufficient recourse and spare this/that to finish the dive.

It seems clear to me, personally, that having all of those extra resources of your buddy clearly increase your potential to problem solve. Moreover, somehow losing that buddy decreases (by whatever amount) your options and safety, so no thinking diver whose #1 priority is safety would BEGIN a dive without all those extra resources, since they are indeed available.

Ultimately, you cannot strap a second brain, a second set of eyes, a second set of hands, and a second set of fins (with a second set of legs to power them) to your backplate. Having a spare brain, eyes, hands, and legs is a HUGE advantage in terms of diving safety. It's not a crutch, it's not something necessary to perform a dive, but it's a dramatic advantage... and perseonally, I would rather start my dive with every advantage available. Doing otherwise is foolhardy.

 

[Rec Diver]

Where does this leave the "buddy" theory? There are many complexities here. Diving with a buddy does not guarantee you life. And diving without a buddy does not mean instant death.

But, we should never rely on a buddy to keep us alive. That's our own responsibility.

Here, here!!! Now can we just simply go diving?

Why does the "buddy thing" always have to be a good or bad issue? Last I knew the scuba police were not going to put me in jail for diving without a buddy. If we all trained to the best of our ability, and then dove within those limitations, wouldn't we all be good divers with ourselves? What more is there to ask for? Most of us have a drivers license, and I am willing to bet that most of us have either been in an accident or received a ticket for a moving violation. Yet, we continue to drive. Isn't driving a vehicle inharently more dangerous than scuba diving. At least I think the statistics prove this to be so. Why do you "divers" think that what you are doing by scuba diving is such a "macho type" activity? For god's sake, just go diving and quite worrying about who is going to save you when you screw up. When I and my buddies, friends, team, whatever, dive together, we plan the dive and dive the plan. We dive in water that is absolutely pitch black and fifty degrees. We each carry two of everything we need and none of aything we do not. We are not DIR, we are just scuba divers having a good time diving. Sometimes we get seperated and sometimes we do not. Life does not begin or end with this, it is just the way it is when you dive in water that has zero visibilty. We don't worry about getting seperated, nor do we get upset withone another when we do. Why? Because we are all self-reliant. We can, have, and are able to take care of ourselves.

 

[Rec Diver]

It seems clear to me, personally, that having all of those extra resources of your buddy clearly increase your potential to problem solve. Moreover, somehow losing that buddy decreases (by whatever amount) your options and safety, so no thinking diver whose #1 priority is safety would BEGIN a dive without all those extra resources, since they are indeed available.

Ultimately, you cannot strap a second brain, a second set of eyes, a second set of hands, and a second set of fins (with a second set of legs to power them) to your backplate. Having a spare brain, eyes, hands, and legs is a HUGE advantage in terms of diving safety. It's not a crutch, it's not something necessary to perform a dive, but it's a dramatic advantage... and perseonally, I would rather start my dive with every advantage available. Doing otherwise is foolhardy.

IMHO, you are full of crap!

 

[JeffG]

IMHO, you are full of crap!

Why?

 

[Rec Diver]

Why?

Please read my previous threads in this forum. They will bare out my feelings concening the statments that were made. There are statistics that are proving that "buddy diving" may not be a safe as everyone thinks.

 

[Randy43068]

Please read my previous threads in this forum. They will bare out my feelings concening the statments that were made. There are statistics that are proving that "buddy diving" may not be a safe as everyone thinks.

because it's done incorrectly MOST of the time.
Think about that, will you?

 

[JeffG]

Please read my previous threads in this forum. They will bare out my feelings concening the statments that were made. There are statistics that are proving that "buddy diving" may not be a safe as everyone thinks.

I did and I still don't see where that makes Pants full of crap. (There got to be a joke in that somewhere)

And you do know what they say about Stats right?

 

[Rec Diver]

because it's done incorrectly MOST of the time.
Think about that, will you?

Would you please explain the "correct buddy system"?