Lessons to be learned-Death in Palau

[jepuskar]

Ok, I am going to change my viewpoint on this a little. For a couple reasons, one...having never dove in anything like you guys are talking about...unless you consider Bonaire to have strong current...hehehe, I have a better idea of what that must have been like for her.

The current had to be dreadful, but to be hooked onto something preventing you from doing anything constructful? WOW! Who knows if she was even strong enough to unhook herself. I'm trying to imagine how I would feel in that situation...horrible current, missing fin, mask flies off, I'm hooked onto this damn thing, now I have salt water in my eye or my eyes are shut..either way, vision is basically gone. Thats some pretty freaky stuff. I'll back off on the she should of done this, done that. blah blah crap. I'm sure alot of us would not be happy with that situation.

As far as liability goes, they were all given these devices before the dive to hook onto the reef or whatever the hell it is they do. Now, if I was given one of these, I'd be like...wtf is this for? After the reasoning, I may have aborted, but I guess its how it was described to me. Another one of those variables we may not know.

I'm going to Cozumel soon and was planning on doing an advanced dive, but now I am thinking twice. I'll see how my first couple drift dives go and how my comfort level is. Maybe this trip I'll skip on the advance ones, but we'll see. I'll definetly pay attention to the 'Trust Me' dive briefing...and I'm sure I'll remember this thread.

 

[runvus4]

The husband IS partially responsible. Certainly not nearly as much as the diver or the dive operator is.

He could have bagged the dive just as easily as his wife could have. They could have both elected to take the apparently easier drift dive that the couple with 12 dives apparently elected to do (apparently taking two instructors with them). He could have been more observant to his buddy loosing not only the fin, which he apparently saw, but the mask, ditch of the weight belt and attempt to remove the BC and tried to offer assistance, even if it was futile.

How fast was the current? 1 knot? 4? We don't know. Nothing in the original post or the follow up mentions 4 knots, only a "ripping current". I've re-read the incident as reported and the followup post, I don't see anything about 4 knots. Apparently the divemaster was able to swim up to the nurse and disabled diver and cut the cord, so he was able to manuver somewhat, even if he was mainly drifting with the current. For all I know from the incident as reported, he could have been swimming successfully against the current. It's not specified. Also as per the dive masters responsibility, he responded to the disabled diver and nurse swimming over to provide assistance without being signaled while the husband/buddy didn't even notice. If the dive master could perform while minding 12 other divers, than shouldn't the buddy have been able to even attempt assistance sooner than the dive master? Or at least notice that assistance might have been needed?

As to the CPR, how do you provide CPR to someone for 18 minutes and not clear the mouth/lungs of water and debris?

The dive is rediculous and the dive operator certainly at some undetermined fault, possibly the most fault of everyone involved, but the dive operator is definately not the ONLY person/entity at fault here.

 

[detroit diver]

jepuskar once bubbled...
......The current had to be dreadful, but to be hooked onto something preventing you from doing anything constructful? WOW! Who knows if she was even strong enough to unhook herself. ......

Well, my friend was unable to unhook herself in this flow, and she' s one strong woman. I'm not sure any guy could do this either.

Try O-rings suggestion a few pages back and try to unhook yourself. My guess is that it would be damn near impossible.

 

[detroit diver]

runvus4 once bubbled...
.......

As to the CPR, how do you provide CPR to someone for 18 minutes and not clear the mouth/lungs of water and debris?
.
....

Obviously before my friend got on the boat, the people attempting CPR had no idea how to go about it.

I imagine that this would be typical of most boats unless someone has training on the equipment.

 

[jiveturkey]

A poster mentioned a while back that the dm isn't expected to hold anyone's hand and that the briefing was adequate. Well, sometimes, that's part of the job. We all know that people can get a c card in 3 days. Professional divers are taught to evaluate from the moment they see the log book/card to watching divers kit up. A dm should have been able to judge his client's skill level, especially on the 2nd day. If he was experienced in the area, a strong current shouldn't have been a surprise. He has a responsibility to review some of the emergency prodedures associated with a dive, regardless of the fact that his divers are legally allowed to do it. If you thought there was a chance that this might be a tough dive for your client, wouldn't you make sure they knew what to do if something went wrong or if they wanted to abort? As was said earlier, the decision is ultimately the diver's and I agree with that. But if that dm had any hesitiation about his client's abilities, he should have briefed them well beyond the norm. This gives them all the information they need to make a responsible decision.

 

[jbd]

video from areas like this where reef hooks are used so divers can stay inplace to watch the marine creatures that come by. For some reason I have it my mind that the current is in the range of 7 or 8 knots. It coulbe less then that but the video made it plain that you weren't staying put unless you were hooked to the reef. As I recall these folks were hanging on with pretty much all the had. I seem to recall the comment that you could look any direction except straight into the current or you would indeed lose your mask.

 

[WreckWriter]

jiveturkey once bubbled...
A dm should have been able to judge his client's skill level, especially on the 2nd day. If he was experienced in the area, a strong current shouldn't have been a surprise.

another thing we don't know, what was the DM's experience level? One can become a DM with a ridiculously low experience level.

WW

 

[WreckWriter]

jbd once bubbled...
For some reason I have it my mind that the current is in the range of 7 or 8 knots.

That would kill you if were tied down. You could never unhook.

WW

 

[WreckWriter]

runvus4 once bubbled...
Nothing in the original post or the follow up mentions 4 knots, only a "ripping current". I've re-read the incident as reported and the followup post, I don't see anything about 4 knots.

Really? My mistake then, it was mentioned and I assumed I had missed it in the original.

4 knots would surely qualify as "ripping", so would 1 knot.

WW

 

[jepuskar]

I was on a cruise ship that was hauling 21 knots.