Lessons to be learned-Death in Palau

[Genesis]

FOUR KNOTS?!

Did I read that right?

How many of you have been anywhere near four knots of current? Ever tried to hang onto a line against 4 knots of current?

We have 3 knots of current here almost every day - in our pass. Get caught in it, you're going for a ride out to the sea buoy - or perhaps beyond.

I had two "interesting sousl" take a dive off my swim platform while anchored in that current a couple of years ago on 4th-of-July weekend. They ignored my instructions (while anchoring) NOT to disembark into the water until I gave further instructions, and did so anyway.

They attempted to swim against it - ha! They attempted to grab offered lines from other boats - ha! I had to pull anchor (hastily!) and swing around, get in front of them, stern-to, take the engines out of gear and drift with them (and the current!) so they could reboard.

It scared the bejeezus out of both of them.

I've also seen people try to dive our jetties during outgoing tide - the aforementioned 3 knots. A few of them have ended up out the pass hailing passing fishing boats!

3 knots is very un-funny and will rip your mask off if you're not careful. 4 knots would almost certainly rip it off with even a slight "misalignment" to the current, might de-gear other things from your person, and is just downright dangerous. That's darn close to my idle speed, and if you think you could handle being "towed" behind my boat like that, you're braver than I.

I'd dive a 4 knot current, but only on a drift. To swing like a flag in the breeze in that kind of current is, IMHO, insane. I find a knot's worth of current on a jonline fairly intense.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Luftgespinst once bubbled...
I think the real point is the bump on the head. She was obviously reacting to a bad situation the way that she had been taught. She had come to the conclusion that it was time to leave and was in the process of doing it. Not well but she was trying to leave. Evidence the droped weights and the partially removed bc. So why did she quit? The bump on the head? Had she finished removing the bc she would in all likelihood been a little shaken but ok, or maybe a little bent. The bump, I suspect, interupted her leaving, possibly, or probably, knocking her unconsious.

There are three points that come to my mind. Where was the buddy? Going after the fin or missed the hook? Two, OW teaches divers how to breath underwater with little or no skill. Drop the weights is not the best idea. But she was reacting the way that she was taught. And three, how will I react if ever faced with a hookin and watch dive?

IMO, who ever taught her to drop her weights and remove her gear should be shot. Dropping the weight only served to tighten the line further making it that much harder to get lose and that much harder to control herself in the current. Rmoving the bc would be about the most inappropriate move I could think of. In that current you might end up very far from the boat and the bc would come in real handy while waiting. We may never know what finished her off but IMO, she didn't do anything she should have.

If she was unable to unhook the line all she had to do was cut it and with all her remaining equipment in place (weights and bc) make a nice controled ascent. Did she have a cutting tool? I wonder. If she did have a cutting tool was it where she could get it? Maybe she was just to busy doing unproductive things out of panick to give it any thought.

Last summer there was a guy at gilboa who had his bc infltor stick on. He spent his very fast ride to the surface trying to remove his bc instead of deflating while he disconnecting the hose. His actions made no sense and neither did this woman's.

 

[WreckWriter]

Genesis once bubbled...
FOUR KNOTS?!

Did I read that right?

How many of you have been anywhere near four knots of current? Ever tried to hang onto a line against 4 knots of current?

Current is almost always overestimated by folks without maritime training. I often hear "its running 3 knots (or 4 or 5)today". The fact is that a full knot (1 kt) of current is undiveable for all but the strongest divers in anything other than a drift dive situation. 3 knots will stop a scooter dead, 4 is ridiculous, rarely found outside of rivers or major oceanic currents.

One CANNOT hang on to a line in a true 4 knots of current with your hands, not for long anyway.

Putting divers in the water for this silly hook thing in 4 kt of current is criminally stupid. Getting in the water in 4 kt for this is farm animal stupid.

WW

 

[MikeFerrara]

A couple weeks ago in Jackson Blue I saw SS scooters stoped dead in their tracks. In some places they wouldn't even be able to hold at all. We don't swim against it we rock climb against it. LOL I don't know how good of a judge of current/speed I am but I'll bet we get 4 knots (and higher) in high flow caves especially in restrictions.

 

[WreckWriter]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
LOL I don't know how good of a judge of current/speed I am but I'll bet we get 4 knots (and higher) in high flow caves especially in restrictions.

Probably close at times in restrictions. I'm sure its been measured, someone here probably knows the numbers (WYDT, MHK, Chickdiver?).

As you know, you can't kick through that kind of current, only a strong person can pull through at all. Can you imagine being in the ocean, tied to the bottom, in that?

WW

 

[runvus4]

I blame everyone....

The diver, the training agency, the husband/buddy and the dive operator, they all have varying levels of responsibility. The most being the diver or dive operator (depends upon what the briefing actually contained, diver's actuall skill level/experience and what the visible conditions were), followed by the husband/buddy for failing to perform or even attempt to perform any of of the expected "buddy responsibilities". Lastly and very minorly the training agency for not properly training the diver on what to do when entangled, which is what clipping into the reef hook effectively was.

So, everyone has some responsibility in the matter, but in the end, who will the buck stop with? The husband is berieved and isn't facing up his responsibility. Certainly he's not going to blame his poor dead wife. Thus the dive boat operator is left holding the bag.

 

[MikeFerrara]

WreckWriter once bubbled...


Probably close at times in restrictions. I'm sure its been measured, someone here probably knows the numbers (WYDT, MHK, Chickdiver?).

As you know, you can't kick through that kind of current, only a strong person can pull through at all. Can you imagine being in the ocean, tied to the bottom, in that?

WW

Nope. Like I said we rock climb against it. The popular term is pull and glide but there wasn't any glide about it just the pull.

 

[chickdiver]

WW

I have no idea whatsoever how to measure current ("flow" inc ave parlance), but I can tell you that I have had days at Jackson Blue (and other high flow caves) where turning your head will start to pull the mask off, facing straight on into the current with your head at the right angle will cause every reg you have to free flow, and... Pushing through the "rabbit hole" at Jackson Blue (a small, short restriction), I have had to kick to augment a long body Gavin dialed allt he way out to get through. UW rockclimbing was a great analogy.

I've done the dive that started this thread- Peleliu Wall, the current does rip through there all the time. About 10 years or so ago an operator LOST divers ont hat wall, in fact, it wasnt allt hat unusal an occurance when Iw as living in the Westpac. Divingint hese typesof current situations is, imho, an iffy proposition even for the most skilled divers. I know I have called the dive from surface on at least one occasion after seeing the ball go under by 2 feet!

 

[chickdiver]

Oh, WW- a guage on the flow at Jackson Blue is that the average volume of water outflow is on the order of 64 MILLION GALLONS per day.

 

[WreckWriter]

blaming the buddy is pointless. He was a victim of a stupid idea, just like his buddy was. Think about it, unless he was perfectly positioned, upcurrent and in line with her, he COULD NOT have gotten to her, nor could the DM who proposed and "lead" the whole plan. Its a miracle DD's friend got there, she only did so by accident. Had she not you would have had a "missing diver" at the end of the dive and the DM would have had to do an upcurrent drop from the boat to find and recover her body.

You cannot swim against that much current, its that simple. Anyone ever dive the Duane in Key Largo? how about the ledges at West Palm Beach? Both of these are known for strong currents. Max current at either? About 2 knots. The current on this CF was said to be 4 knots!

How much control do you think you have, blowing across the reef trying to deploy and set your stupid little anchor? Believe me, anchors catch when they want to, not when you want them to. Ask any boater.

The whole situation is tragic but the scenario of the dive was incredibly stupid.

WW