Legal responsibility to your dive buddy?

[LeadTurn_SD]

...So, the question I have is: is it a "no-no" for one non-professional diver to "touch", guide, lead, etc., another, and am I just lucky something worse did not occur; or is it okay to do that? I was thinking about what if I encountered this person in a cross walk when the light was changing and helped her to the curb [she was not elderly or in any way feeble or frail, so that is not the issue, but I would not have hesitated on land to take a person's arm and move them along a little]. It turned out later that her first buddy had run out of air and the DM had buddied her up with another diver temporarily, but that guy left and ascended without telling her, so it made some sense as to why she seemed out of sorts, but I could not tell that, and my instructor buddy said it did not matter anyway as I had no business "touching" another diver. \
What do you think?
Thanks

I think you did the right thing. You encountered a diver that seemed confused or non-responsive, and who seemed to be behaving strangely given the circumstances. You rendered appropriate assistance, and other than your zero-to-hero dive instructor friend, everyone was probably happy.

Now, if you encountered a diver doing a mandatory deco stop mid-water, and dragged them up to the surface because they seemed "confused"..... different story

The point is that I think every situation is unique, but with even a slight bit of experience and good judgement (and some luck) most folks can recognize when it is time to step in and do something. The hard part is the borderline cases, where it is not apparent that the diver is in trouble...

Best wishes.

 

[Doubler]

I think you did the right thing. You encountered a diver that seemed confused or non-responsive, and who seemed to be behaving strangely given the circumstances. You rendered appropriate assistance, and other than your zero-to-hero dive instructor friend, everyone was probably happy.

Now, if you encountered a diver doing a mandatory deco stop mid-water, and dragged them up to the surface because they seemed "confused"..... different story

The point is that I think every situation is unique, but with even a slight bit of experience and good judgement (and some luck) most folks can recognize when it is time to step in and do something. The hard part is the borderline cases, where it is not apparent that the diver is in trouble...

Best wishes.

I agree. One of the many problems with today's society is the propensity for suing one another. This has led directly to the "I don't want to get involved" mindset. The OP did the right thing, I probably would have given the okay sign and waited for a response, if I didn't get one I would have done the same thing except I would have stuck around until we surfaced.
Once when diving in Belize, there was this elderly couple, on the boat. My wife and I were cruising along when I noticed them kneeling on the bottom grabbing each other, I mean grabbing, pushing and shoving. I'm thinking something bad going on here so I swim over, give the Okay sign and get it back from both of them so I leave. Back on the boat the elderly lady comes up to me to thank me for my concern. She tells me this happens every dive, he takes her camera and changes the settings, she takes it back and changes them to her settings and they get in an underwater argument. I began watching them and it did happen every dive. They spent half the dive under the boat going back and forth. Cute, but you got to check, like you said the hardest cases are the borderline ones.

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

......
Once when diving in Belize, there was this elderly couple, on the boat. My wife and I were cruising along when I noticed them kneeling on the bottom grabbing each other, I mean grabbing, pushing and shoving. I'm thinking something bad going on here so I swim over, give the Okay sign and get it back from both of them so I leave. Back on the boat the elderly lady comes up to me to thank me for my concern. She tells me this happens every dive, he takes her camera and changes the settings, she takes it back and changes them to her settings and they get in an underwater argument. I began watching them and it did happen every dive. They spent half the dive under the boat going back and forth......

My wife is my dive buddy, and although we do really well as buddies and we've never "bickered" underwater, your story brought a smile to my face, because I can just see that couple having a "discussion" underwater

Thanks for sharing that one.

Best wishes.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Actually, here in Washington, I believe we are required to respond. That doesn't mean we have to give assistance, but we do have to at least report it in a timely manner.

If I remember right, this became law after a man was left to die on the side of a highway. We also have a "good Samaritan law" which gives us some legal protection from lawsuits if we do render assistance.

I don't believe that's correct. I can't imagine anyone not wanting to, but I have never heard of a law that mandates a legal duty of care.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[elmer fudd]

I think that's just crazy. If I ever appear to be in trouble underwater I sure as hell don't want someone to be afraid to touch me.

It's one thing if you're groping her, but to take someone by the hand or arm when they appear to be in trouble and you can't talk is just being a good person.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I was with my buddy in the Caribbean recently and on our boat there was a female diver who was an intensive care unit nurse, who appeared to have a reasonable amount of experience, good gear, etc, who went with the group led by the DM, while I went elsewhere with my buddy on the dive. When we were returning to the line, I noticed that this person appeared disoriented and was waving her hands around in unintelligible gestures and generally seemed uneasy. I swam over to her and tried to get her attention to direct her to the line, but she did not seem to understand or to be inclined to move that way. I gently took her arm and guided her about 25-30 feet right to the mooring [about 40 feet down] and put her hand on the line and gave her the sign to do a safety stop and went back to join my buddy to finish up our air by doing a little tour around the reef near the mooring. When we surfaced, my buddy, who is an instructor was furious with me for "touching" another diver. She made it clear that in no instance short of an emergency is it proper for one diver to "touch" another such as I did in guiding this person to the line. I have actually a lot more experience than my instructor buddy, and had never heard this before, but her arguments about "out of control" divers, maybe spitting out their mouthpiece/reg, etc, and then maybe suing me seemed to catch my attention.
So, the question I have is: is it a "no-no" for one non-professional diver to "touch", guide, lead, etc., another, and am I just lucky something worse did not occur; or is it okay to do that? I was thinking about what if I encountered this person in a cross walk when the light was changing and helped her to the curb [she was not elderly or in any way feeble or frail, so that is not the issue, but I would not have hesitated on land to take a person's arm and move them along a little]. It turned out later that her first buddy had run out of air and the DM had buddied her up with another diver temporarily, but that guy left and ascended without telling her, so it made some sense as to why she seemed out of sorts, but I could not tell that, and my instructor buddy said it did not matter anyway as I had no business "touching" another diver. \
What do you think?
Thanks

I think your instructor buddy didn't know what she was talking about. If someone appears disoriented or is acting strangely, it is certainly appropriate to take reasonable steps to get them out of the water safely. The only thing I would have done differently, given what you described, is that I would've stayed with her and accompanied her to the surface.

Once when diving in Belize, there was this elderly couple, on the boat. My wife and I were cruising along when I noticed them kneeling on the bottom grabbing each other, I mean grabbing, pushing and shoving. I'm thinking something bad going on here so I swim over, give the Okay sign and get it back from both of them so I leave. Back on the boat the elderly lady comes up to me to thank me for my concern. She tells me this happens every dive, he takes her camera and changes the settings, she takes it back and changes them to her settings and they get in an underwater argument. I began watching them and it did happen every dive. They spent half the dive under the boat going back and forth. Cute, but you got to check, like you said the hardest cases are the borderline ones.

... classic!

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Sas]

I don't know the answer to the OP's question but perhaps go and ask a first aid instructor local to you? They tend to have the knowledge in that area.

Personally I have never bothered to worry about my legal liability to my buddy. If something happens I will do my best. And if that gets me sued, whatever, I'd prefer that than not intervening. Also I've told my partner not to sue anyone if I die diving because it will most likely be my own fault.

 

[elmer fudd]

I don't believe that's correct. I can't imagine anyone not wanting to, but I have never heard of a law that mandates a legal duty of care.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Took me a little while, but I looked it up. You are required to render assistance to anyone who has suffered substantial bodily harm.
Gov. Gregoire signs Good Samaritan Law, approves Sunday liquor sales and signs bill promoting Native American studies

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Took me a little while, but I looked it up. You are required to render assistance to anyone who has suffered substantial bodily harm.
Gov. Gregoire signs Good Samaritan Law, approves Sunday liquor sales and signs bill promoting Native American studies

Hmmmm ... gonna have to look into how this affects scuba rescues ... but I was unaware of that law.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[spectrum]

My understanding of this is that you don't have to have been trained properly to use common procedures to save someone's life, but you don't do any advanced or invasive medical procedures either. So you could operate a defibrillator on someone whose heart has stopped or inject someone with a bee allergy with epinephrine without having any training, but you don't do an emergency tracheotomy or inject adrenaline into their heart, like they did in Pulp Fiction, because those are advanced medical procedures.

I agree. Being formally trained, really knowing by common knowledge (no formal certification) or even reading the instructions to me fall inline with defensible action.

One one dive day a lady mentioned she did have bee sting sensitivity and that she had an epinephrine pen - remove the cap and stick me she she said. Were we trained? Now, in all likelihood an incident would not have been dive related but I don't see a difference in the "appropriate action" category.

Doing a tracheotomy with a dive knife would be a little over the top even though father Mulcahey did one with a pocket knife on M.A.S.H. He did have Hawkeye walk him through the procedure.