Legal considerations for the Fire on dive boat Conception in CA

[Wookie]

I actually did look up the waiver for the Peace boat out of Ventura. I could not find the Truth Aquatics waiver. The Peace waiver enumerates a list of safe diving practices among other things.

https://www.peaceboat.com/v/vspfiles/assets/LiabilityReleaseForm.pdf

The actual release of liability section is shorter and rather broad. Interesting read. Notice the release includes Peace Dive, LLC.

RELEASE OF LIABILITY I WILL RELEASE Peace Dive, LLC, Dive Boat Peace, its owner, and their employees and agents, including the boat Captain, and diver masters, from any and all responsibility or LIABILITY for any and all injuries or damages sustained by me or others. I WILL NOT SUE or make a claim against any of the above parties for injuries or damages sustained by me or others, whether it arises or results from any NEGLIGENCE or other liability. (INITIAL_________)I am fully aware that diving with compressed air involves certain risk and that INJURIES OR DEATH CAN OCCUR. I further agree that if I am involved in an underwater accident that the Captain or dive master may require that I be evacuated to a hyperbaric chamber and that I am responsible for all associated expenses. (INITIAL_________)I understand that dives on this trip may be conducted at remote locations and that a hyperbaric chamber may not be easily accessible. Nonetheless I agree to proceed with this dive trip. (INITIAL_________) I HAVE READ THIS RELEASE AGREEMENT, I UNDERSTAND IT, AND I WILL BE BOUND BY THE ABOVE RISK AND LIABILITY AND DIVE TRIP ASSUMPTION.

Dive boat waivers deal mostly with diving.

Because we ran charters other than diving, we also had a boat waiver. Divers did not sign the boat waiver, as the dive waiver contained the provisions of the boat waiver.

It’s interesting that you couldn’t find the Truth Aquatics waiver. We made our customers acknowledge our waiver before we took their money so that if they showed up at the boat and objected to it, we could say that they had already seen it. I had 2 refuse to sign it, and they were refunded on the spot. Turns out that when they got their refund, they were “just kidding”. I wasn’t. They were denied boarding.

 

[rjack321]

@rjack321 , in the other thread you said "There will ALWAYS be a risk of catastrophic fire aboard a vessel. This is like saying boats should never sink."

I wonder if the fact that we don't see waivers for anything but the diving is related to the question of whether vessels sink because of so-called simple negligence or because of so-called gross negligence. Maybe the legal community sees no point in customers being asked to waive their right to sue for negligence because it's always or almost always gross negligence if the boat sinks, and a waiver of one's right to sue for gross negligence is generally unenforceable. I don't know the answer--just thinking here.

Or perhaps because maritime law limits their liability in the first place which is generally considered to favor the shipbuilder and owner.
How Maritime Law Could Affect the Duck Boat Accident Lawsuit | LaBovick

 

[Lorenzoid]

Or perhaps because maritime law limits their liability in the first place which is generally considered to favor the shipbuilder and owner.
How Maritime Law Could Affect the Duck Boat Accident Lawsuit | LaBovick

Fascinating.

 

[bigDave]

It’s interesting that you couldn’t find the Truth Aquatics waiver.

I looked everywhere I could think of. Maybe it is on a page that got pulled.

Though I went back to some old pages on archive.org and didn't see it there either.

We made our customers acknowledge our waiver before we took their money so that if they showed up at the boat and objected to it, we could say that they had already seen it. I had 2 refuse to sign it, and they were refunded on the spot. Turns out that when they got their refund, they were “just kidding”. I wasn’t. They were denied boarding.

Important lesson, don't mess with a Wookie....

 

[Wookie]

I looked everywhere I could think of. Maybe it is on a page that got pulled.

Though I went back to some old pages on archive.org and didn't see it there either.


Important lesson, don't mess with a Wookie....

It was my insurance companies advice. Since they would be holding my hand if I ever got sued, I thought I should do as they said. I owned and ran a liveaboard for 20 years. I had 3 fatalities, including one diver who just disappeared.

I was never sued.

 

[Tesibria]

Or perhaps because maritime law limits their liability in the first place which is generally considered to favor the shipbuilder and owner.
How Maritime Law Could Affect the Duck Boat Accident Lawsuit | LaBovick

Owner of dive boat where 34 died seeks to head off lawsuits

"The owners of the dive boat where 34 people perished in a fire off Southern California filed a lawsuit Thursday to head off potentially costly litigation.

Truth Aquatics Inc., which owned the Conception, filed the action in U.S. District Court in Los Angeles under a pre-Civil War provision of maritime law that allows it to limit its liability."​

More at the link.

 

[MichaelMc]

Would the waivers have been on the Conception, or left/emailed/uploaded ashore?

 

[bigDave]

Pretty tone deaf of the owners to file paperwork when one of the lost souls has yet to be recovered.

 

[ChrisM]

A necessary evil that won’t go over well with the general public. But I would assume they would need to win the race to the courthouse to establish the primacy of this lawsuit over any other previously filed civil lawsuits. And we all know there is at least one complaint that is probably already drafted for wrongful death.

As I recall the sundiver did the same with drifting dan but don’t think they were successful after o believe an appeal or two

 

[cerich]

Pretty tone deaf of the owners to file paperwork when one of the lost souls has yet to be recovered.

they either follow their legal advice paid by insurance company or go it alone. I would be tone deaf AF myself...and dying inside.