Legal considerations for the Fire on dive boat Conception in CA

[Wookie]

But then you can go diving anytime for "free"!

Keeps you out of trouble on the weekends as well.....

 

[tursiops]

But then you can go diving anytime for "free"!

Exactly! And get free air from your own compressor!

 

[KevinNM]

How about they decide that SOLAS passenger ratings (or even the large yacht rating) are required for these boats? My guess is that there will be some good deals on used boats, and no liveaboards.

 

[kelemvor]

I can see court injunction preventing the rest of these boats from operating. I can see USCG revoking their certification making second look at the interpretation of ‘means of exit’. I can see criminal negligence lawsuit involving the owners of the boat for operating the boat that ‘on a facade’ looks as complying with the law but in practice it doesn’t. There will be lot of arguments about deception, misrepresentation and alike. I think it all depends on the imagination of DA. With 34 dead in California waters DA will have quite motivation. Some heads will have to get on the chopping block.

Really, wouldn't it be more appropriate to block all boats from operating in California waters until the matter is resolved?

 

[Bob DBF]

Really, wouldn't it be more appropriate to block all boats from operating in California waters until the matter is resolved?

Since the boats seem to be under USCG regulation, that should include all boats operating under those regulations in the US.


Bob

 

[NAM001]

Someone else brought up the idea criminal charges being filed. I'm just saying if there are any charges, they would be related to criminal negligence.

I'm not debating the likelihood of it happening, but I am of the opinion that the likelihood is far from zero, due to the circumstances.

Cant help thinking about the waivers that were signed and the operators normal position that they are suit free. I love these type of things because they point out the stupidity of haveing to sign them. Being forced to waive your rights in exchange for services. Cal already has laws preventing such from happening thanks to ebay and pay pal years ago. Hopefully if there is enough money in the plantifs hands for representation the current use of waivers may be finally declared as moot.

 

[Wookie]

How about they decide that SOLAS passenger ratings (or even the large yacht rating) are required for these boats? My guess is that there will be some good deals on used boats, and no liveaboards.

The GMDSS radio requirements are stupid for a national boat, and over $100,000. That’s just the radios, doesn’t include the life rafts and structural fire rated walls.

You are right. There would be lots of fishing boats for sale, dive boats are but a tiny percentage of overnight passenger vessels.

 

[JackD342]

Cant help thinking about the waivers that were signed and the operators normal position that they are suit free. I love these type of things because they point out the stupidity of haveing to sign them. Being forced to waive your rights in exchange for services. Cal already has laws preventing such from happening thanks to ebay and pay pal years ago. Hopefully if there is enough money in the plantifs hands for representation the current use of waivers may be finally declared as moot.

I think in the extremely litigious environment in the US, they are a necessity when engaging in any inherently risky activity. The participant needs to acknowledge they are shouldering some responsibility just by participating, rather than holding someone else responsible for me come hell or high water. Without them, no one would dare consider providing these services.

 

[drrich2]

Cant help thinking about the waivers that were signed and the operators normal position that they are suit free. I love these type of things because they point out the stupidity of haveing to sign them. Being forced to waive your rights in exchange for services.

Hopefully if there is enough money in the plantifs hands for representation the current use of waivers may be finally declared as moot.

That could be bad news. IIRC from other threads, waivers don't release the provider from 'gross negligence,' so they're full protection, anyway. The nature of recreational scuba boat diving is that there is always risk, and the customer needs to accept assuming that risk as a condition of participating in the activity. Gear or a loose tank could fall and break your foot. You could stumble over something on the deck and hurt yourself. The boat might jerk up or down with a swell when you grab the ladder and injure your should (a guy diving out of North Carolina got a broke arm being too close to the boat, though ladder wasn't involved).

You're not forced to exchange your rights for services, as the services are non-essential and you're not forced to obtain them. The issue is not so much your actual rights as what a liability lawyer can convince a jury they are in the shadow of a tragedy. That some juries may be willing to find a known innocent party guilty just to hook the plaintiff up with money adds to the problem.

As a practical example, there are divers who, knowing about the Conception accident and deaths, would still go out on overnight live-board trips on a boat like it. Let them have their informed choice as a matter of free will.

Making everybody a target for lawsuits doesn't make everyone safe, it puts everyone in danger, and businesses hedge their risks by buying larger insurance policies and passing their costs on to us.

 

[NAM001]

I think in the extremely litigious environment in the US, they are a necessity when engaging in any inherently risky activity. The participant needs to acknowledge they are shouldering some responsibility just by participating, rather than holding someone else responsible for me come hell or high water. Without them, no one would dare consider providing these services.

I agree however the waivers put all the accountablility on the customer. The waiver holds the provider faultless. That is the problem. There is no shared accountability in the waivers you are made to sign to get a the service. I(f the waivers were legit, this discussion would not be taking place because the waiver holds the boat and its associates 100% faultless.