Legal considerations for the Fire on dive boat Conception in CA

[scubafanatic]

I am supprised such an expert did not have the old regulations changed instead of dogpileing after the fact, but he was getting paid for inspecting vessels and telling the prospective buyer that it was compliant, as well as determing the value of the vessel.

If one wants to point a finger, it is all the proffessionals in the marine industry that know there are safety issues, but do not get the regulations changed. Unfortunately, the marine industry, as well as others, have to see a body count before there is change.

That's assuming a cause is found and any changes made in the future will actually prevent a reoccurrence.



Bob

If you want to see how corrupt the Coast Guard and American Bureau of Shipping can be, watch/read about the loss of the Marine Electric:

Review: Disasters at Sea -- Deadly Neglect, the Loss of the Marine Electric – gCaptain

Disasters at Sea | TV Guide

 

[cerich]

I'm betting, going forward, that the remaining Truth Aquatics boats will find passing future inspections/certifications rather tougher than before, especially happening so close to the FAA being so throughly called out/exposed when certifying the 737Max airliners as safe and sound.

many vessels shall.

 

[Lilespig]

Interesting question, I looked it up. DAN will pay for the loss of scuba equipment if it's due to water or flood damage. So it would have had to have gotten flooded from the boat sinking, before it got burned. I guess they have ways of determining if that's actually what happened.

I meant if the divers had or paid for the additional coverage for the travel injury or accidental death while diving. Does it only cover while actually diving? I don't think it's a life insurance thing as much as insurance for recovery and repatriation of remains but I would have to go back and check what it covered.

 

[shoredivr]

What the NTSB finds will drive what modifications to boat layout, equipment, procedures, etc. that must be done but regardless what NTSB finds I think this incident has created an awareness to the fact that you are very vulnerable packed like sardines below deck with little way to evacuate quickly. Some will soldier on, willing to accept there are risks in life, but many will decide the risk is too great. I've been hearing a lot of comments in various venues to the effect that people are rethinking the whole concept of liveaboards. Of course there will continue to be liveaboards. My point was will there be enough willing to dismiss the risks to support the base that currently exists?

Whether or not fire during charging lithium batteries is found to be the cause or contributed to the accident, I am hoping that all liveaboards will establish safer charging stations and protocols for lithium battery charging. There are numerous videos about lithium battery fires, aviation has battery rules, and so on.

It has been noted by Wookie that dumping lithium batteries and chargers that were smoking/burning overboard was what worked on his liveaboard for preventing fire spread on more than one occasion.

Charging stations with quick access for dumping smouldering batteries would be a plan. Likewise metal charging boxes, no easily combustible materials nearby like foam cushions. Also no charging anything below decks.

I know any future liveaboard diving for me will include asking specifics about charging batteries.

It would be wise IMO for the liveaboard industry to take charging lithium batteries seriously.

 

[Scubagolf]

A federal statute, 49 U.S.C. § 1154(b) prohibits the use at a subsequent civil or criminal of the final probable cause report prepared by the NTSB, as distinguished from factual accident reports. Investigative reports containing factual data is admissible so long as it does not constitute inadmissible hearsay. This means that non-hearsay witness statements and investigator collected evidence will generally be admissible.

 

[scubafanatic]

Whether or not fire during charging lithium batteries is found to be the cause or contributed to the accident, I am hoping that all liveaboards will establish safer charging stations and protocols for lithium battery charging. There are numerous videos about lithium battery fires, aviation has battery rules, and so on.

It has been noted by Wookie that dumping lithium batteries and chargers that were smoking/burning overboard was what worked on his liveaboard for preventing fire spread on more than one occasion.

Charging stations with quick access for dumping smouldering batteries would be a plan. Likewise metal charging boxes, no easily combustible materials nearby like foam cushions. Also no charging anything below decks.

I know any future liveaboard diving for me will include asking specifics about charging batteries.

It would be wise IMO for the liveaboard industry to take charging lithium batteries seriously.

Just 2 months ago Russia came THIS CLOSE to losing their most advanced/deepest diving nuclear sub to a Lithium battery fire:

Russian spy sub crew prevented nuclear accident at cost of their lives

(14 of the crew died and they JUST BARELY saved the sub.)

Russia's Fire-Damaged "Losharik" Spy Submarine Heads For Repairs As New Details Emerge

.......How and why the battery blew up remains unknown, according to Kommersant's report. The newspaper pointed out that Losharik originally used silver-zinc batteries from a supplier in Ukraine, which was part of the Soviet Union when Sevmash began building the submarine. The Russian Navy has since reportedly swapped these out for Russian-made lithium-ion batteries given the virtual impossibility of obtaining replacements from Ukraine, which gained independence in 1991. In 2014, Russia seized Ukraine's Crimea region and began actively supporting separatists fighting the Ukrainian government, and the two countries have been engaged in a low-level conflict ever since.

 

[BRT]

Just 2 months ago Russia came THIS CLOSE to losing their most advanced/deepest diving nuclear sub to a Lithium battery fire:

Russian spy sub crew prevented nuclear accident at cost of their lives

(14 of the crew died and they JUST BARELY saved the sub.)

Hydrogen gas, sounds more like lead acid batteries.

 

[Scared Silly]

SOP ...

California boat fire probe widens as FBI serves search warrants on Conception owner

California boat fire: Investigators serve search warrants on Conception owner

 

[scubafanatic]

Hydrogen gas, sounds more like lead acid batteries.

You'd be wrong though:

Russia's Fire-Damaged "Losharik" Spy Submarine Heads For Repairs As New Details Emerge

.......How and why the battery blew up remains unknown, according to Kommersant's report. The newspaper pointed out that Losharik originally used silver-zinc batteries from a supplier in Ukraine, which was part of the Soviet Union when Sevmash began building the submarine. The Russian Navy has since reportedly swapped these out for Russian-made lithium-ion batteries given the virtual impossibility of obtaining replacements from Ukraine, which gained independence in 1991. In 2014, Russia seized Ukraine's Crimea region and began actively supporting separatists fighting the Ukrainian government, and the two countries have been engaged in a low-level conflict ever since.

 

[roakey]

scubafanatic,

I have no idea why your posts appear to be filled with such hate and vitriol. Though they may add some small content to the thread, it pales when placed aside the needless negative adjectives.

I thought this was a legal thread, not a rant thread.

O2