Leave nothing but bubbles????

Which category do you feel most resembles your attitudes??

  • Vegan, and don't believe in messing with the critters.

    Votes: 2 4.8%
  • Not vegan, but don't like spearfishing

    Votes: 17 40.5%
  • Spear fisher, at least partly with environmental considerations

    Votes: 18 42.9%
  • Spear fisher because I like it, and the environment or morality is not a consideration

    Votes: 5 11.9%

  • Total voters
    42

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5. Spear fisher because I like it, at least partly with environmental considerations.

I like hunting, but only take what it looks like the area can support, even if regulations permit more.

I know a vegetarian and a couple of mostly vegetarians, if that counts for anything. Each to his own.



Bob
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I may be old, but I'm not dead yet.
 
A brazillion likes to you, sir.
But what if he wants his "likes" au naturale? Oh, never mind. I haven't met a man yet that doesn't like his likes any way he gets them...

To answer the OPs question. I am neither vegan or vegetarian (though I have been in the past) nor am I yet a fisherman. I do think it's the best way to get your food, though and will eventually start bug hunting and spearfishing.
 
Animal lover here but also a lobster hunter and in the process of learning to spearfish. I saw that post as well and dive on the boat mentioned. It's where I learned to hunt. I too considered posting but refrained. It would be interesting to get her thoughts on this thread.

I believe it is hypocritical of anyone not a Vegan to criticize any hunter that consumes his/her catch...
 
I think it's hypocritical of anyone not living in mud hut eating local forage and wearing clothing sewn from plant fiber to comment on anyone else environmental impact.Particularly someone using a computer using electricity and I assume living the common consumerist lifestyle.We all do what we can but imposing your values on others is rarely without risk.
 
vegetarian.jpg
 
You guys are going to think I'm crazy, but I've actually thought a lot on this topic over the years.

I never liked justifying human behavior by identifying the same behavior in the animal kingdom

ie: we are meant to eat meat, look at what happens in nature
ie: we are meant to be gay, animals do it to
ie: we are supposed to bed every woman we meet, it happens in nature
ie: etc, etc, etc - you could justify just about anything with this type of argument as all types of behavior occurs in nature (cannibalism, incest, killing for pleasure, killing the weak, sex with all kinds of strange things, etc)

I'm not saying there isn't truth to some these analogies, but I believe them to be logical fallacies for the most part

So that out of the way, I started to think maybe, part of the human condition is understanding that we don't have to kill other sentient beings? We don't have to be meat eaters... We are intelligent enough to realize we don't have to take life, so why do we still do it?

Now the statement I just typed out ... is a fallacy in my opinion... only because it has been developed in a modern, wealthy, developed world where food is inexpensive and abundant... This doesn't even take into account the proliferation of tofu burgers, fresh vegetables, and all kinds of protein alternatives that are now very commonplace and inexpensive. You see, I thought that we (the human race) have a choice, and given that choice, we should take the higher road towards "oneness with the universe" if you will. We as Americans have the luxury of choice, but it does not mean it's our nature, or should or shouldn't be our nature.

The reality in many parts of the world is that people need to consume anything that is edible to survive. I imagine the thought of being a vegetarian doesn't even cross their minds, because getting anything to eat regardless of whether its meat or not is the only concern. In areas that are fertile with a climate that supports farming, people can subsist on vegetables, in areas that are not, people have to add other sorts of sustenance (meat). If you look at all the strange things that people eat around the world, do you think someone discovered these items because 1000 years ago, he or she, was a foodie, and wanted to expand his or her pallete? I'd wager, that most of these odd food items were discovered out of necessity as people ate whatever they could to keep from starving. Even in a fertile region, what do you do in times of famine or flood? You have to hunt or fish to survive.

So then I started thinking about hunting. Why, when food is plentiful and easily obtained in America, do some people feel the need to go out and kill something (obviously, in poor countries they have to for survival). Do they just love to kill? Is it the hunt? Where is the attraction? I think to some degree there is some pleasure taken in the process of tracking, and capturing prey. For some the pleasure may be in the physical display of the dominance of the human race. What I am getting at, is everyone has their own reasons, and I won't try to understand them all. Personally, I like playing darts, basketball, football, target shooting, etc. I like doing things that require skill. Hunting takes skill, knowledge of your prey and the area you are hunting, etc etc. I take some enjoyment from that process. Putting meat on the table (that I would have otherwise gotten from a grocery store) is a bonus. It is something that is going to occur anyway, why don't I take responsibility for it, in a manner that is both humane and sustainable?

So I started to pull the thread a little further... I also realized that hunting and fishing is a way of life. Like any way of life, if it is not passed down, it will be forgotten. There was a time when every man had to know how to hunt, fish, and grow crops, amongst many other skills to survive. Over time, this has become less and less the case in our country thanks to the conveniences of a modern world. That being said, I personally believe, that a way of life, that is essential for the survival of the human race (hunting, fishing, farming), should not be forgotten. So, besides being a method for putting food on the table, or spending time with your kids, hunting and fishing provides an opportunity to pass on that way of life to the next generation.

The last part of this thought process for me, you already seem well aware of. The food industry today is disgusting (even in America... imagine what it is like in countries like China). Long story short, hunting and fishing (when done properly), is much more humane and sustainable than what is going on in the food industry. That being said, the food industry is a necessary evil to support a developing civilization (we can't all be farmers, hunters, and fishermen), but it can be made better.

When I first responded to your topic, I said great post. That doesn't mean I disagree or agree with you. I liked your post because it was well thought out, and it was a topic that I have thought about as well. I don't pretend to have the right answer(s). I don't think anyone does. There's an old saying, If you already know everything, you can't learn anything. I believe dialogue like this, with altering viewpoints, is what allows us to get closer to the right answer. We may never know what the right answer is, but I believe we can all gain a fuller understanding through the conversation.
 
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I eat animals and plants, do not spearfish but feel it's fine where it is not prohibited, I fish, I do not hesitate to assassinate Lionfish and any other animal or plant causing damage to the environment or property.
 
I'm surprised there are a few who responded "Spear fisher because I like it, and the environment or morality is not a consideration."

Does "the environment is not a consideration" mean you would hunt an animal to the point of extinction? Or is the problem again the way the question is worded, and what you really mean is that a relatively few spearfishermen will have such a small negative impact on the environment compared with far more destructive fishing practices that you feel you don't yet need to be concerned about your impact on the environment?
 
I eat meat and enjoy (Texas, not a surprise to anyone). I believe high density proteins are the reason we have highly developed brain. Compare grass burners (grazing animals) to meat eaters, its a relatively simple piece of logic.

Extending it to hunting for however takes some additional thought. In my younger days I hunted on land (anything from rabbits to deer) and spearfished, gathered lobster, abalone and scallops as I found them. Now I don't. The difference was in the old days I was hunting close by my home, it was in my mind a harvest as the game was plentiful. Now the hunting options are on vacation only, where I am a visitor. The game is somewhat limited. As a visitor, I hold my self to a different standard, which is "leave no trace". What game is left i leave to the locals to harvest as they see fit (when legal) and don't judge them.
 
I reject the assumption there is some higher moral calling which precludes eating meat.I find it repugnant on the part of some vegan/vegetarians to adopt this mantle of superiority,if you are so superior I suggest a flight to Asia,Middle East or Africa were you can prove this by alleviating the suffering of humans in those areas.Hand wringing and teeth gnashing about the plight of animals while doing nothing about the condition of one's fellows removes any chance of being taken seriously by rational thinkers.Evolution or God as you will has placed us in this position over eons of change...to assume my finite mind and a few websites can come up with a better evolutionary plan smacks of arrogance or foolhardiness


GOG above posted the reason modern science gives for the correlation between meat and brain development,to go against that evolution seams counter intuitive.If I want to evolve a smaller brain and less cognitive ability in my progeny then I'll start eating vegan.
 
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