Learn to Bounce Dive for spearfishing

[Thalassamania]

I guess it is done. At the AAUS Dive Computer Workshop Karl Edmonds presented a paper that appeared to me to be aimed at discrediting dive computers in general, which was not a hard thing to do back then. He showed that a series of bounce dives, I think it was down to 100 and up, 10 minutes on the surface, down to 100 and up, and so on, would inevitably result in bending a diver (and in trial chamber runs had actually bent subjects) even though the computers of the day (there were only four out, EDGE, Micro-Brain, Suunto ML and Pelagic) would let the series go on long after the subjects were bent.

During the QnA Ralph Osterhout (Shamlian?) or Farallon and Tekna fame asked, somewhat rhetorically, ".. what sort of booger-eating moron would dive a profile like that?" In response to which Parker Turner drawled, "... why, we do it all the time." Laughter ensued.

So I guess there is some place for these sorts of profiles somewhere in the technical world, at least there was, at one time, amongst the WKPP.

As has been observed, DCS is a stochastic phenomena and doing something 100 times does not mean that it will not bite you badly the 101st time. Repeated bounce diving has been shown to raise the odds of getting bent ... Edmonds' study shows that bends are inevitable if the series is continued, even though tables and computers say that you'll be just fine. Bubble pumping is also a clear hazard and I know several people who have suffered loss of feeling and functions as a result.

If you want to do bounce dive series, knowing full well what I have told you, knock yourself out ... but I'd have to say that you do not understand the science or have the sense that you should have been born with.

BTW: Did you note that, "The PET(CO2) of six of the divers at pressure was greater than 50 torr, which based on animal studies markedly increases the risk of central nervous system oxygen toxicity."?

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I don't know any tech divers who are into bounce diving ... nor have I ever heard it promoted as a safe practice in any tech class I've ever taken or attended.

What tech divers are doing it?

And correct me if I'm wrong ... but wasn't it a quick bounce that killed Wes Skiles on a rebreather?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

you are wrong....

 

[lowviz]

...//....During the QnA Ralph Osterhout (Shamlian?) or Farallon and Tekna fame asked, somewhat rhetorically, ".. what sort of booger-eating moron would dive a profile like that?" In response to which Parker Turner drawled, "... why, we do it all the time." Laughter ensued.....//......

I'm guessing that Parker Turner was referencing how they reached "undiveable" regions of particular cave systems.

I guess it is done. .....//....

This is my concern.




Censure may be warranted, but it leaves a particularly offensive aftertaste...

 

[VooDooGasMan]

I did note the PET, this thread is to learn bounce diving for spearfishing, it is a tad bit more less conservative than a bounce for anchor release, gear recovery, or a peak whats that down there take a peekaa boo bounce dive. Where as when the learn to bounce dive thread is done with review and unlocked it can be discussed in a more conservative way.

Spearfishing is a work bounce dive, so to debate Co2 is a great topic as there are only true episodes from spearfisher's on doing a series of Deep Air Bounce Dives that can tell there experience here on this thread. I have not done it often back to back, but I did do it just a few months ago.

I was down picking out my ling cod and found these scallops, so i came up and norm was a fishermen and I was in his boat, I pulled out the scallops and said there is gold in these here waters, a short SI and I was back to 180' with current moving pretty good pace. So It happens to me as long as I feel the time is right on SI, and also I dove a few dives a day for a long time upon this bounce dive.

 

[Thalassamania]

Well VDGS, all I can say is that you're damn lucky, you played the odds and, that time, did not lose. I happen to be way too fond of my spinal column and all the things that it does for including (but not limited to) sexual function, bladder function, bowl function, and walking. My spinal column has been very, very good to me, and so I try to be very, very good to it.

 

[boulderjohn]

I was down picking out my ling cod and found these scallops, so i came up and norm was a fishermen and I was in his boat, I pulled out the scallops and said there is gold in these here waters, a short SI and I was back to 180' with current moving pretty good pace. So It happens to me as long as I feel the time is right on SI, and also I dove a few dives a day for a long time upon this bounce dive.

So here we have a fine, articulate response to all the research on diving and decompression. If I feel like I've had enough surface interval, then I must have had enough surface interval. Why, just recently, I did this dive, and I lived. It must be good.

This is really a pretty complex subject, and it has been studied intensely for decades--over a century, actually. As a result of all that scientific inquiry, we still cannot accurately predict who will get DCS and when, but we can identify dive profiles that are extremely close to 100% safe. We can also predict profiles that are extremely risky. Otehrs are in between.

Which do you think we are talking about in this thread?

We live in a strange world. A single man writes an article about autism and vaccinations that is soon proven to have been an intentionally false piece with fake data so that he could get a payoff from the interested parties who benefited from the scare. His false cause is exposed as a flat out lie by scientists around the world, but it is taken up by a former Playboy bunny who writes several books that become best sellers and frighten parents around the world into refusing to vaccinate their children against diseases that can kill them. Given the choice between believing the results of scads of scientific studies and the ravings of an uneducated former Playboy bunny, many thousands of people go with the bunny, leaving their children at risk for a horrible death.

And here we have a choice. To whom will you trust your life on scuba? A hundred years of research and the consensus of all diving experts, or the guy who can say that he has survived a lot of such dives and who said in an earlier thread that he hopes some day to die during a deep scuba dive?

 

[lowviz]

I did note the PET, this thread is to learn bounce diving for spearfishing, it is a tad bit more less conservative than a bounce for anchor release, gear recovery, or a peak whats that down there take a peekaa boo bounce dive. Where as when the learn to bounce dive thread is done with review and unlocked it can be discussed in a more conservative way.

Spearfishing is a work bounce dive, so to debate Co2 is a great topic as there are only true episodes from spearfisher's on doing a series of Deep Air Bounce Dives that can tell there experience here on this thread. I have not done it often back to back, but I did do it just a few months ago.

I was down picking out my ling cod and found these scallops, so i came up and norm was a fishermen and I was in his boat, I pulled out the scallops and said there is gold in these here waters, a short SI and I was back to 180' with current moving pretty good pace. So It happens to me as long as I feel the time is right on SI, and also I dove a few dives a day for a long time upon this bounce dive.

Then I will say it. You are an idiot.

Bounce diving came very close to becoming an object of intelligent discussion. It may do so in the future, but it will not be associated with VooDooGasMan's procedures.

lowviz.

 

[VooDooGasMan]

I'm not asking one diver to agree with my diving, Just telling my experience and how i did with out a incident. And I would rather die underwater in a deep dive so as in hopes there is no recovery also. Of course my body and mind will give one hell of a fight to the surface as I know how to survive any dive I decide to do. I know how to do do a lot of things really good, and I am well at others, but i know how to scuba dive the very best of anything I know of, for over 30 years. I should have died this year as I did very long dives, and multiple short dives, Still here, its really no big deal, its just a way of life.

Tank size came up with a fella I took fishin today, he asked how long can you stay down(like ya haven't herd that before right) on a tank of air. so I said long enough to get me back to the surface. Did not elaborate to him at all and that is the only answer for Bounce Diving. Now I will say this, pump up your tank as full as you can with your means, if it is just the rated amount then that what you deal with. And have a large capacity single tank is obviously going to give you plenty to achieve your Bounce dive, and then you can move to twin tanks for team bounce dive if you feel the need to.

 

[boulderjohn]

And I would rather die underwater in a deep dive so as in hopes there is no recovery also. .... I know how to do do a lot of things really good, and I am well at others, but i know how to scuba dive the very best of anything I know of, for over 30 years. I should have died this year as I did very long dives, and multiple short dives, Still here, its really no big deal, its just a way of life.

Keep posting, VDGM! You are giving people good evidence on which to draw conclusions.

I was wondering, though, if it would be possible for you to help with an experiment. Do you have any samples of your writing from years ago, before you did these repeated bounce dives to wondrous depths? If you could post them, we could have some data on the effect of repeated deep bounce dives on sentence structure.

It is also interesting to know that your knowledge and skills in scuba are what you know best in life. I am trying to imagine that. What is your regular line of work? I would bet that technical diving expert Bruce Wienke, who certainly disagrees with you, would think that his role as Program Manager in the Nuclear Weapons Technology/ Simulation And Computing Office at the Los Alamos National Laboratory (LANL) was more important than his role in diving. I would also guess that our own Dr. Decompression, Michael Powell, who would also disagree with you strenuously, would think that his work with NASA was a higher calling than his own diving. Dr. Richard Pyle, one of the most renowned experts on deep diving theory, who would also strongly disagree with you, would probably rate his standing as one of the world's foremost ichthyologists as more important to him than his tremendous scuba diving process. So what is it that you do in life that requires so much less skill and knowledge than you are displaying here?

 

[VooDooGasMan]

Tonight was my night to host happy hour, as everyone was grubbing and drinking, I lost my way back many years ago while looking at the sea from the deck, with a glass of wine, and remember a recent post of akimbo, or thal, saying they pull down an ascent line and use buoyancy to ascend. I read it and it was there way, which was a fine way to do it with having little effort.

Back up 33 years ago, when I would do a dive, and well you really did not consider this a bounce dive as it had no name for the most part. You were experienced in having no bcd and so I wanted to dive the wrecks in front of our house on lake superior with the older divers, they are the ones that taught me and took me out. As I began deeper wrecks I dove 71.2 tanks and I would remove like 5 pounds of lead from belt and you would gain at least 8# or a little more as the tanks dropped pressure, and as you pulled your self down your wet suit would take a few pounds off, you go down take a look around and as the few minutes went by you return to the line and it was an easy ascent and that's how a dive went, pretty much a Bounce Dive

I have perfected my dives through the years, all different gear configuration and different gasses.

Bounce diving is a style that everyone should know about, not a kept secret, as the spero's from the oil rig posted they told it the way it is. There are so, so, many bounce divers out there that will not consider explaining it because it being so complex of a style of diving and you should be in very good shape when doing on a regular basis.