learn from tables or dive computer?

[jbd]

The one point of contention here is that I feel that ascent rate indicators and alarms are very good things for a new diver. Remember being surprised at how you had suddenly ascended 10 ft or more on your first dives in blue water? The ascent rate indicators can be a really good training tool for developing buoyancy awareness and control.

Better than relying on a computer alarm for bouyancy awareness is actual training in bouyancy control so the diver doesn't need and alarm. An alarm can go off all day long but if the diver doesn't have the solid skill base to do something about the issue causing the alarm then the alarm is really pretty useless.

I definitely agree with the repsondent who commented something along the lines of,' if one doesn't have the mental horsepower to do simple arithmetic one shouldn't be diving'.

 

[Fotoz4FX]

There doesn't seem to be much room for debate here. This is taken from a local dive shop website and sounds kind of crazy to me:

Our Courses Are Dive Computer Rated!
Computer rated means that we no longer use tables (Developed in the 1950's as a "sliderule" for calculations). Why? For several reasons,

Safety,
Not for most of us: tables are calibrated for males (Marines) 18-25 years old, in peak physical condition, 95% of us don't fit this profile
Loss of Diving Credit: tables assume you descent to a certain depth, say 30 feet and stay there the entire time. There's not a reef in the world that's this flat.
Ascent rate alarms: tables don't have ascent rate meters or alarms, nor do they beep at you!
Oops I made a mistake!: tables don't beep, or warn you if you are about to do something wrong or are doing something wrong, you have to wait to get to the surface to find your mistake, which is often too late.
Many live-aboards and operators REQUIRE computers because of the increased safety factor

Up to Date Technology: As medicine changes so do dive computers, tables can't be updated by pluggin them in! Engineers haven't used slide-rules in years, neither should we. Or Ask a college student when the last time they did math by hand? (okay some calculus & physics don't count!)
Removes human error

Convenience
Ever see groups of divers scramble for log books and tables at the end of a dive? On a boat? What about just sitting back and relaxing after the dive and let your computer calculate everything for you.
Log book is right in your computer, most are downloadable into your PC!

Fun
We've come to learn how to scuba dive and have fun, if we wanted to spend our vacation scratching our head over math we'd go to an insurance seminar.
You can do more diving in one day with a computer than tables

Value
Get more diving dollar because you can do more dives per day. Example, try doing 8, 80-90 feet dives with tables, it can't be done, but with a computer it can! Just dive Flower Gardens.

Wow... thanks for sharing that. I'm glad I have NO ASSOCIATION with THAT shop because I'd be challenging those instructors regularly. That information is so far-fetched and off the wall that I would suspect that it was NOT written by any self-respecting instructor. If it was, that person surely is amongst the dumbest people in the Dante Registry.

 

[MikeFerrara]

As for alarms and beepers, there are so many going off UW that its obvious the divers
using computers aren't any more skilled than the ones with no alarms.

It's worse than that. Those crazy beepers go off when divers just raise their computer to look at it. The diver may not be ascending at all.

 

[DiveMaven]

When you were in 1st grade, you knew how to count but not add. When you learned basic math you learned to relate numbers to objects (concrete learning). Shortly later, you were able to eliminate the objects and understand what the numbers themselves meant (abstract learning). After learning all the math functions you were introduced to a calculator. You were able to take your understanding of what numbers meant and began to be able to apply that in more and more abstract ways.

IMO, starting with the basics of learning what the tables mean, how to use them, and actually plan some dives using them is the important concrete learning that all divers should do. Once you understand why the tables were developed, how they work, etc., go for the computer (abstract learning). Otherwise you will likely wind up to be following the computer blindly and not understanding why it is telling you what it is.

Look at it this way, MORE knowledge in a sport that can kill you everytime you do it is ALWAYS a good thing!!

 

[Buoyant1]

Definately learn tables!!! Then when you go for Nitrox training learn how to use the tables for that!

Why? Dive computers break, dive computers get stolen, batteries die at the wrong moment etc...Tables don't break, if they do, clear tape works. Tables don't usually get stolen, if they do, you can always borrow some without a problem, tables don't take batteries....

I use a computer, but still keep track of everything with tables in my log as a contingency.

They're not that hard to learn to dismiss them!

 

[scubabrn]

I'm sure I'll be using a computer but it seems as if one would benefit greatly from at least learning to use the tables first, in order to understand what the dive computer is doing for you and in case you lose your computer, it's malfunctioning, in an emergency, etc.

Any thoughts appreciated.[/QUOTE]
Sounds like you have a basic understanding of things. Im my opinion it is very important to learn the theory behind dive tables. My wife and I had 30 or so dives before we dove computers. One must learn nitrogen absorbtion and offgasing and what not , with computers you would be following blindly.

 

[divermike1989]

.....I think everyone should know the tables first before getting a computer.

Ditto, everyone seems on being intent on getting a computer. New divers should know tables first.

 

[GDI]

I would suggest to learn BOTH. Many divers don't seem to realize that computers are nothing more than tables with the luxury (or fault depending on your point of view) of continuous calculations. . yes computers can provide you real feedback information based on the actuall dive made but then a diver who monitors their dive correctly can also have just as safe and enjoyable a dive.

Compare a computer to a table lets say at 60 feet/18 meters. A table subject to its algorithm will permit 55 minute as will the computer subject to it's programing. Learn Both

Once you become profficient on table use you will be able to use it faster than you can push the buttons on your computer to get the same information

 

[The Kraken]

I agree with GDI.
Learn the tables and always have one with you on your dive.
It's an amazing thing, but I've yet to see the batteries in the RDP crapping out just as one prepares to make a dive.

the K

 

[havnmonkey]

I would walk out of an LDS if they told me that! Computers are based on the tables... that is where they get the times from; what they do differently is to calculate the different depths you go during your dive.

Learning to dive w/out tables is ludicrous... I think this LDS is using it as a business gimmick!

Just like any other electronic devices; Dive Comps. can and will fail! There also have been a few "manufacturer recalls" due to improper programming! If you don't KNOW the tables you can't tell if your comp. is giving you faulty times!