LDS's are just too expensive

[jchull]

At my LDS, loyalty is rewarded, pretty much get 20% off everything. I buy everything I can through my local shop. In other areas, I buy all my stuff online, but this is one sport where the only thing I bought online was rechargable batteries for my light.

 

[hlsooner]

Sure, outsourcing is a real issue, I was just confused because I don't see ordering from the major online vendors as harmful since the four I listed are all LDS stores who happen to help a local economy, just not the one immediately near me.

 

[jchull]

How do you get gas fills on teh internets?

 

[MSilvia]

How do you get gas fills on teh internets?

Networking. You meet other divers doing interesting stuff in your area, get to know them, and before you know it you're getting fills at their basement stations and going out on wreck trips with them. YMMV.

Another way would be this: http://www.scuba.com/shop/product.asp?category=155
It's only about $7.50 a fill if you and a buddy do 200 dives with it.

On the flip side of that coin, how do you get trimix and deco fills from an LDS that only banks up to 40% nitrox?

 

[ReefHound]

This topic is always entertaining.

We have the LDS supporters come out of the woodwork to tell us how their LDS prices is as low as anything online. Maybe so, but it that was true to any significant degree overall we wouldn't be having this discussion. Most people's first contact with scuba was at the LDS (OW class). They were the shop's customer to keep or to lose.

We have those telling us how the online dealer has less overhead, carries less inventory, doesn't have store rent, or pay employees, and somehow doesn't pay taxes. Complete nonsense. Individuals may operate out of their garage but most all the big names that are mentioned here have physical stores - they are an LDS. As the discussion over whether Divers Supply was small or large pointed out, their overhead far exceeds most LDS. We've had some of the bigger online owners here describe in details their costs so I don't know why this point is even up for discussion.

My first loyalty is to my family. If I feel the need to write a charity check, I'll write it to my church or ACS or Red Cross, not my LDS owner. If he's really my friend, he should sell to me for less than some online place. Business IS business, and it doesn't mean "sending it overseas". BTW, can somebody tell me whose loyalty-based localized economy is doing better than our "toilet" economy?

As for having to ship things back for return/exchange/service, that's less trouble and often less expensive that spending gas money and fighting traffic to get to the LDS.

As for socializing, join a dive club. Much nicer to hang out with guys who aren't trying to make a buck from you, with guys who dive with you because they simply want to not because they want to do business with you, with guys who let you try their stuff out and give you honest advice with no vested interest.

I'm sure some of you really have a great LDS which you pass by every day going to work, who matches or approaches online prices, who does prompt onsite repairs, who has great people working there, and who serves as a social center for your diving community. But you all seem unable to comprehend that such is not the case for most of us.

 

[J.R.]

... but most all the big names that are mentioned here have physical stores - they are an LDS.

Yea... but YOUR LDS is whooping up on MY LDS...

Ummm... and you mentioned that the big LDS/internet thingies have greatere overhead... now, would that be as a straight doller count measure or as a percentage of gross sales? I'm kinda' bettin' that it's the former...

 

[ecudiver]

ok first off i know how you feel on ur LDS mine is the same way but being a student at the local college or being a member of their scuba club intitles you to 10% off which adds up when buying expensive gear. and as far as a mediocre set of gear for 1700 idk where you are shopping. i got a bpw setup and scubapro mk17 s555 combo wiht octo and guage for about 1400 and i know my setup isnt mediocre.

 

[talonraid]

I was referring to another comment about how "business is business." It's this very philiosophy that causes divers to buy online, *and* for American businesses to outsource their jobs. I was just trying to illustrate how many of our jobs are going overseas because "business is business." This "business is business" philisophy is sending our local and national economy into the toilet all in the name of saving a few bucks.

Does that make sense?

Littlebug, I'm not just picking on you, but we're not just sending all our money overseas with nothing being returned.

We are the biggest consumers of products in the world. We're filthy stinking rich compared to most countries. Our standard of living is higher than anyone in the world. Spend a little time in South America, Asia or even Europe. With that being said, many foreign companies send their business here. For example, Toyota is opening one of the largest car manufacturing plants in the world in San Antonio, TX. Many foreign companies have their coorporate headquarters here in US cities like Austin, Dallas, Las Angeles, New York, etc. We have great, reliable infrastrucure (communications, logistics support, transportation networks, etc). We (the US) provide a different piece of the WORLD economy. Physical labor in the US is often too high for many companies to create the gains that enable them to grow, re-invest, and of course to make the shareholders fatter and richer. If we (US) provided every aspect of building a "widget" most other countries couldn't afford to buy it. There is nothing wrong with this. It is a changing world wether we like to accept it or not. The entire world economy is linked. Don't believe me? Just watch what happens to our stock market when one of the Asian or European markets increases or decreases. What would happen if every Ford motor vehicle was built here in the US? I'm guessing you wouldn't see them in many other countries and many middle-class and lower class US citizens wouldn't be driving one. If we isolated ourselves from the world economy we would soon see smaller third world countries that are entwined with our own economies colapse. Then civil strife, perhaps war, famine, disease, etc.

Wow, all this from one discussion about internet sales. I'm frightened now.

 

[ReefHound]

Yea... but YOUR LDS is whooping up on MY LDS...

Ummm... and you mentioned that the big LDS/internet thingies have greatere overhead... now, would that be as a straight doller count measure or as a percentage of gross sales? I'm kinda' bettin' that it's the former...

Seeing as how you write checks with absolute numbers rather than percentages, the former is all that matters.

Another thing often mentioned is how the LDS cannot operate on such low margins with such low volume. But volume is a byproduct of margin. Their low volume is due to their high markup. Lower the price and the volume will increase. It's Economics 101.

Of course, it takes time for word to get out and reputations to be built. It requires an upfront investment and a leap of faith to bridge the gap between lowering the prices and seeing the volume increase.

 

[newjack06]

Those dive shops that sell ludicrously priced gear and expensive courses had better be prepared for competition from online markets. There are plenty of good websites that offer free service on regulators, honor all warranties, provide free shipping, and almost always have the lowest prices.

Just because there is a LDS in your area does not require you to give your money away to them out of Scuba Board guilt. If their prices are close, service is good, and they're reasonable... then by all means, spend your money at the LDS. Otherwise, business is business!

that's what i've been trying to say. if you can't afford it what do you do?