LDS's are just too expensive

[newjack06]

Divers Supply is not a small shop. They have 7 stores in NC, FL and GA and have one of the most successfuly Internet sales businesses for a brick and motor scuba shop. They move some very large invetories which allows them to give great deals. One important fact about them; many of their items are actually less expensive when you walk into thier store locations than through their ebay or Inernet stores. Most locatoins have pools for training and an extremely large and loyal customer base. This took years to build and started as a small shop in 1977. They are the worlds largest scuba diving dealer. Leisure Pro is a New York City based brick and motor, supported by the families jewelry business. They move huge quanities of inventory as well. You walk into their shop and you will find the same pricing as their Internet sales and again some items discounted even less. Scuba Mart and Scuba Toys are smaller operations that get great deals on close outs and factory specials. Scuba Mart, at least the Internet store I know of, is based in San Rafael California not Savannah Georgia. Scuba Toys, a fantastic site sponsor, is located in Carrollton Texas. They have a fantastic store out there and have grown their Internet business on offering excellent deals, very low Internet profit margins. They also offer a 10% discount to SB members.

These Internet companies are not small operations. They have established store fronts that were the foundation of the Internet business. Out of the gate you can not deliver a simular pricing scheme without that foundation. Give the local LDS's a break and just enjoy the sport. You found the equipment you wanted for now, hopefully the warranty is not the standard "Internet" warranty where you have to send it back to Divers Supply or other retailer for factory warranty service. Enjoy your gear, it was a great deal, dive safe and have fun. When you start your DM program, maybe you will understand the challenges to the LDS and the limitations that exist on pricing at typical level of purchase.
:monkeydan

im sorry, i purchased my mares from scuba market in Richmond Hills, GA right off 95. i used to live south of there. i've done my research before purchasing. i made sure my purchase was from an authorized dealer. so if i do take my equipment to be serviced the LDS has to fix it. i have warrenty cards and im registered.

 

[ReefHound]

that's what i've been trying to say. if you can't afford it what do you do?

Something else. I support your position on buying online, but at the same time you have to accept that scuba is an expensive sport. There is no inherent human right to scuba dive. Some people simply do not have the income level to support it. Life is not fair.

 

[newjack06]

Networking. You meet other divers doing interesting stuff in your area, get to know them, and before you know it you're getting fills at their basement stations and going out on wreck trips with them. YMMV.

Another way would be this: http://www.scuba.com/shop/product.asp?category=155
It's only about $7.50 a fill if you and a buddy do 200 dives with it.

On the flip side of that coin, how do you get trimix and deco fills from an LDS that only banks up to 40% nitrox?

LDS's are no doubt important for classes, air fills and service. its that their selection is very, very expensive. even for their so called close-outs.

 

[newjack06]

This topic is always entertaining.

We have the LDS supporters come out of the woodwork to tell us how their LDS prices is as low as anything online. Maybe so, but it that was true to any significant degree overall we wouldn't be having this discussion. Most people's first contact with scuba was at the LDS (OW class). They were the shop's customer to keep or to lose.

We have those telling us how the online dealer has less overhead, carries less inventory, doesn't have store rent, or pay employees, and somehow doesn't pay taxes. Complete nonsense. Individuals may operate out of their garage but most all the big names that are mentioned here have physical stores - they are an LDS. As the discussion over whether Divers Supply was small or large pointed out, their overhead far exceeds most LDS. We've had some of the bigger online owners here describe in details their costs so I don't know why this point is even up for discussion.

My first loyalty is to my family. If I feel the need to write a charity check, I'll write it to my church or ACS or Red Cross, not my LDS owner. If he's really my friend, he should sell to me for less than some online place. Business IS business, and it doesn't mean "sending it overseas". BTW, can somebody tell me whose loyalty-based localized economy is doing better than our "toilet" economy?

As for having to ship things back for return/exchange/service, that's less trouble and often less expensive that spending gas money and fighting traffic to get to the LDS.

As for socializing, join a dive club. Much nicer to hang out with guys who aren't trying to make a buck from you, with guys who dive with you because they simply want to not because they want to do business with you, with guys who let you try their stuff out and give you honest advice with no vested interest.

I'm sure some of you really have a great LDS which you pass by every day going to work, who matches or approaches online prices, who does prompt onsite repairs, who has great people working there, and who serves as a social center for your diving community. But you all seem unable to comprehend that such is not the case for most of us.

right on!

 

[J.R.]

Seeing as how you write checks with absolute numbers rather than percentages, the former is all that matters.

REALLY??? :no

Ya' need to forget "Ecconomics" and study "accounting"... a $100,000 overhead to a $10,000,000 grossing company is a lot less significant and has less impact on the bottom line than a $100,000 overhead to a $90,000 grossing company. The 'check numbers' are the same... the financial impact vastly different.

Scale is everything... (short of marketing... but that's an 'overhead' issue...)

... and, I'd point out... big companies can place big orders with big manufacturer's... this means quantity price discounts at the wholesale level... if you're a little company you have to buy lesser quantites... which means much slimmer wholesale discounts... which means you don't have as much wiggle room in your pricing...

These quantiy price breaks aren't, generally public information... but, having spent some time in the retail world... I can tell you that they can be substanital and are designed (at the maufacturer's level) to encourage the movement of the largest quantity of goods possible... so, the big fish eat better than the little ones. (... in effect... the LDS is being forced to subsidise the big stores that are knocking them out of existance... now... HOW RIGHT IS THAT!!!)

Perhaps we're ALL off target... perhaps the point is to look at the manufacturer's and try to demand that they wholesale their goods to all merchants at the same price??? This would give the LDS a break which they could pass along.

 

[newjack06]

Something else. I support your position on buying online, but at the same time you have to accept that scuba is an expensive sport. There is no inherent human right to scuba dive. Some people simply do not have the income level to support it. Life is not fair.

it is expensive, but an LDS should not discourage someone looking to dive by their high equipment costs.

 

[newjack06]

REALLY??? :no

Ya' need to forget "Ecconomics" and study "accounting"... a $100,000 overhead to a $10,000,000 grossing company is a lot less significant and has less impact on the bottom line than a $100,000 overhead to a $90,000 grossing company. The 'check numbers' are the same... the financial impact vastly different.

Scale is everything... (short of marketing... but that's an 'overhead' issue...)

... and, I'd point out... big companies can place big orders with big manufacturer's... this means quantity price discounts at the wholesale level... if you're a little company you have to buy lesser quantites... which means much slimmer wholesale discounts... which means you don't have as much wiggle room in your pricing...

These quantiy price breaks aren't, generally public information... but, having spent some time in the retail world... I can tell you that they can be substanital and are designed (at the maufacturer's level) to encourage the movement of the largest quantity of goods possible... so, the big fish eat better than the little ones.

Perhaps we're ALL off target... perhaps the point is to look at the manufacturer's and try to demand that they wholesale their goods to all merchants at the same price??? This would give the LDS a break which they could pass along.

now that's an idea. so do we as divers have control over the pricing of manufactures selling their products to LDS's? And would the LDS's give us the price breaks in return.

 

[shoupart]

I agree- I don't feel some obligation to buy from my local dive shops. I don't feel an obligation to the dive community that I'm supposed to fufill by buying my equipment at LDS prices. Heck with that- whoever has the best value or deal, I'm going with them. ANy shop that expects their customers to buy from them solely out of some sense of loyalty (like "We certified you- you should buy from us) can't expect to last too long.

 

[redacted]

REALLY??? :no

Ya' need to forget "Ecconomics" and study "accounting"... a $100,000 overhead to a $10,000,000 grossing company is a lot less significant and has less impact on the bottom line than a $100,000 overhead to a $90,000 grossing company. The 'check numbers' are the same... the financial impact vastly different.

Scale is everything... (short of marketing... but that's an 'overhead' issue...)

... and, I'd point out... big companies can place big orders with big manufacturer's... this means quantity price discounts at the wholesale level... if you're a little company you have to buy lesser quantites... which means much slimmer wholesale discounts... which means you don't have as much wiggle room in your pricing...

These quantiy price breaks aren't, generally public information... but, having spent some time in the retail world... I can tell you that they can be substanital and are designed (at the maufacturer's level) to encourage the movement of the largest quantity of goods possible... so, the big fish eat better than the little ones.

Perhaps we're ALL off target... perhaps the point is to look at the manufacturer's and try to demand that they wholesale their goods to all merchants at the same price??? This would give the LDS a break which they could pass along.

As a retail purchasing customer, I really don't care much about overhead, margins, wholesale discounts, and dealer agreements. I care about what I have to pay for what I want. I understand that shop owners are not trying to get rich by scamming customers. They are just trying to make a living at something they thought they would enjoy. But that still does not justify, IMO, some of the sales techniques employed by some shop nor does it motivate me to seek anything other than the best overall deals for me.

 

[newjack06]

I agree- I don't feel some obligation to buy from my local dive shops. I don't feel an obligation to the dive community that I'm supposed to fufill by buying my equipment at LDS prices. Heck with that- whoever has the best value or deal, I'm going with them. ANy shop that expects their customers to buy from them solely out of some sense of loyalty (like "We certified you- you should buy from us) can't expect to last too long.

there are shops that will try to guilt you into buying their stuff, even if can get a way better deal online. but like i said in the last thread do we as divers have the power to demand lower prices from manufactures. in a sense it should be the manufactures responsibilty to keep LDS's in business by selling their product at online line prices.