LDS vs Internet Shop

[ADKdiver]

First I would like to thank all of the people who post information here. You have been extremely helpful to me over the last year as I have researched dive gear and finally selected the equipment I wanted. I have quietly read thousands of threads and reading your opinions is very helpful to me. I am extremely pleased with what I have recently purchased and spent a great deal of time talking to people and reading about all kinds of SCUBA stuff.

I would just like to make a few comments in here and feel free to tear me a new one and tell me I am coming at it wrong b/c I am just telling you my experience.

1. I bought my BCD, regs, etc. online from a place highly recommended on SB for good customer service
2. I did not go to the LDS of the person who I trained with
3. I am relatively new to diving (maybe this should be 1)
4. I went to a LDS to rent a tank to test out the new equipment I bought online and ask about renting a computer which I can’t afford to purchase now but plan to buy in the next 12 mo. and would like to test

So here is my experience…

Internet

The internet guys over the phone just wanted to help me get what I ask for (even beat a price of another online competitor), and provided their opinion when asked. I got what I feel is a great price and had the product in less than 10 days (with a back order). All Guaranteed.

LDS

Dive shop guy proceeded to tell me I did not want a wrist mounted computer b/c , among other reasons, I might forget it. Perhaps valid but remember I am trying to rent something to try out. A simple “no we do not rent them but we do sell them and here is our selection, I personally use a console and here is why, but if you want a wrist mount this is what we’ve got.” Very simple and polite.
But no, now he has to start in on me

Are you a tech diver?

No I am not, I am relatively new to diving (30 dives) I am going on my second trip to Bonaire next year were hooked…..

The reason I ask is because only tech divers need a wrist mounted computer….

By the way I am interested in a wrist mounted computer after hours and hours of reading SB and talking to other divers, and I only want to TRY one.

Well I hope to do rescue soon and learn more and move up, but right now I am just trying to get more time underwater as per the reason we are going to Bonaire again.
And I talked to a guy and that is what he used and recommended.

And it went on for a few PAINFUL minutes, until I could get the heck out of there.


Now you tell me why internet placeless are “stealing” more and more sales from LDS’s!

Now I have recently moved, not far, but far enough that my other SCUBA instructor is not convenient anymore. So he could have been cool and perhaps gained another student for a Rescue course. Instead, I now know to definitely not go back to this guy, not because of the message he had, but how he delivered it.

Now I know some of you are going to say that I am not giving him a chance, or perhaps I am overly sensitive. Perhaps that is true, but I went into this shop having read numerous threads on here about experiences with LDSs that were less than pleasant, and people who love them. I wanted to find out for myself what my LDS was like, a test of sorts, and I can tell you this much; I will continue to order my stuff online, I will keep my mouth shut when I rent a tank, and I will continue to look for a good rescue instructor, who I can see getting along with and has excellent experience.

 

[Doc]

"Years" of lurking here, "hours and hours of reading" SB, and your first post.

You found that the LDS gronked you off because they wouldn't let you use a wrist mount compass although they may have had other motives?

Maybe the internet source will let you try it out.

Uh, what was your question? Be n adult about it. Not all LDS are bad news, not all internet stores are just ducky, either.

You really can't beat a good LDS. Search and find one.

In the mean time, do a little research on your new best friend, the internet. Find out the pros and cons of wrist mount versus hose mount. Find out about the shortcomings of a digital SPG, find out about the good points.

Or just find some talkative old diver at your LDS or their local dive club. Make friends, ask questions. Continue to avoid the clowns.

 

[ADKdiver]

Wow looks like I touched a nerve with you RoatanMan, your response is exactly what I am talking about...thanks for helping me make my point.

I just wanted to rent something you don't have to treat my like a jerk.

So the great thing about the world is I can take my money elsewere.

Again just my exprience.

 

[bikefox]

I have bought some of my gear on the internet and some at my LDS. At first I thought I was saving money buying online. I have since changed my mind. After a recall on a regulator, a wetsuit that didn't fit right and a light that didn't work, I appreciate my LDS alot more than I used to. I still buy online every now and then if the price is a huge difference, but by the time I pay S&H the savings is usually very small. I do, however, have several good LDS my my area.

 

[8thElementDiver]

Wow looks like I touched a nerve with you RoatanMan, your response is exactly what I am talking about...thanks for helping me make my point.

I just wanted to rent something you don't have to treat my like a jerk.

Quite right. But let's end it here. Basic Scuba Discussions is a friendly, flame-free zone.

I've tried giving business to various LDS, with mixed success. Only after I watched a technician who helped me do my annual maintenance on my regulators and tanks did I discover what a horrible job the Seattle shop had been doing. I was a DM for them for 5 years, was in the shop on a regular basis, and yet the manager never remembered me and made it a point to grumble about giving me the DM discount when I bought gear there. On the other hand, a different Seattle-area shop recently bent over backwards to help me out.

A different shop lost my business when they wouldn't let my wife try out a BCD before spending $500 on it. ("Sorry, we don't have that model in rental; it's too new. No, we can't take it back after you try it out, even if it's just for a few minutes.") But Scuba Toys had no problem with letting her try it out. Guess who got our business.

Many LDS's--especially the ones who have been around a long time--still think they are kings. Most don't realize how easy and reasonable it is to buy gear over the internet. And as tec diving keeps growing, more and more divers will be setting up their own gas compressors, putting the final nail in the coffins of the LDS's who deserve to be buried--namely, the ones who don't realize how important excellent customer service is.

 

[RAWalker]

I've been in your shoes. lol
The thing is I make it clear that I expect and want the best bang for my buck whether it's for gear, training, service or travel. I take the time to become an educated shopper and expect an explaination of a differing opinion that makes sense. Give me B$ and I head toward the door.
I have to admit I have an advantage with an abundance of local shops to choose from.
A few of these pride themselves on being cost competative and I've been able to purchase most of my big ticket items locally from them.
Sometimes when I have the time I'll take it to argue with the LDS salesman. It can have the effect of informing others in the shop of your displeasure with their treatment of you and warn them of what to expect. Other times I do a U turn and head to the door. After a few tries that LDS is on my ***** list and I'm unlikely to return unless I hear of a change in management.
I do not even look at brands that do not support an open market.
I always check locally first and if my LDS does the right thing so will I.
That said I do purchase from online sources also and if an LDS that I deal with gives me any lip about it I tell them they didn't have what I wanted or were asking too much for it.
If they don't want the business that I have given them they can give me a hard time about it.
I hope you can find an LDS that can meet your needs but it may take a couple of them and the internet.

 

[Stu S.]

Major retailers such as Wal Mart and Home Depot have training for employees on correct retail etiquette. They have Quality Assurance methods for this in place. Due to this, we have grown to expect being treated with respect as customers.

Smaller merchants don't have this type of service training. The quality of retail service rendered is the result of the disposition of the sales person, rather than a company standard. "Mr. Sunshine" may not always be behind the counter.

A good LDS is just as valuable as a good on-line retailer. Each has certain advantages. Trouble is, the quality of the small dive merchants is varied, and a good one may not be local.

Good luck with it.

 

[Doc]

Wow looks like I touched a nerve with you RoatanMan, your response is exactly what I am talking about...thanks for helping me make my point.

Yes- you're writing-off all LDS because of one negative experience. Makes perfect sense.

I just wanted to rent something you don't have to treat my like a jerk. So the great thing about the world is I can take my money elsewere.

As I agreed above. Read or misread my comments as you will. The internet is not a great mode of communication.

Now, the disagreement we have is really about using the internet as a research tool to determine- in advance- what the pros and cons of any given gear set-up might be. Before you go in to rent or buy any specific item, always do the research as to what previous qualified users think. In example, the computer.

So, make the proof. With all of the research and reading that you say you've done- what differences have you found between wrist/hose, analog/digital, AI or not? Or did you just want them to educate you? Retailers tend to "sell what's in the wagon". Not an excuse, but quite a reason!

You just posted to complain about poor service and attitude from a dive shop. If that were the norm, the majority of posts here would be in that forum. Some would make a reasonable case, such as yours- most would be a result of Type A Noobs coming into contact with some misguided diver who thought his love of diving would carry over to being a proprietor of a dive shop.

As Stu S said, they're not all the same. Your local LDS, if worthy of your trade, should be well considered before flitting off to buy on the net.

You're going to need some place to get compressed air- there have to be some personable dive shop staff out there. You don't have to love everyone there- maybe you'll find one go-to-guru. This is quite common.

That's all I was saying. Touched a nerve? You bet, especially when your search for bricks and mortar satisfaction has apparently ended at #1.

 

[Hoomi]

You know, having married a woman who grew up in the Mormon church, I still immediately think "Latter Day Saints" when I see LDS, and my first thought was, "Are the Mormons fighting the internet now?"

Yeah, so many years of an abbreviation meaning one particular thing is rather difficult to amend in the mind.

Anyway.

Tucson is a very bicycle friendly city, and we have no shortage of bike shops. My favorite is a little independent shop on the south side of town, and Frank, the owner, very much stresses customer service. I have never had an employee there try to sell me something I didn't need, and if I'm asking for something that won't work for my application, they explain why I might be better looking at a different product.

I make a habit of taking my business to Frank, even if I can get the product cheaper online, because I know he takes care of me, so I want to take care of him. I also want to make sure that his shop stays in business, because if it's the night before the "Big Ride", and I discover a broken part on my bike and NEED it for the ride, that discount internet vendor isn't going to do me much good.

The same is true of your local dive shop. Find one that takes care of you, and doesn't just make the quick sale. It might put some nice profit in the till to sell you something that is completely wrong for you, but long-term profit comes from repeat customers that trust the shop. Additionally, if it's Friday afternoon and you're heading to a dive weekend that night, and discover a piece of your equipment needs a replacement part that you don't have on hand, that LDS is suddenly your best friend (unless you just happen to like having your weekend plans spoiled).

There are shops of various types around town that I don't go back to, and there are others that I make a point of patronizing whenever I need something they sell. I don't want a shop employee to treat me like an idiot if I'm asking for something that won't work for my application, but I also don't want them to figure they've got a quick sale now, and another quick sale when I discover it won't work (and isn't returnable) and have to come get the correct item.

Unless you have only one LDS in reasonable driving distance, and it's staffed by insufferable louts, I'd suggest giving other shops a chance and seeing how their customer service is. Don't just look for one that will sell you want you ask for; look for one that will help you find what you need. Especially as newbies, those two categories can often vary widely from each other.

 

[shoturtle]

You hit a nerve on the board, it is your money and you are the best one decide how to spend it. Some LDS are helpful. Some will flame you for supporting an online shop. I use LP all the time, as it is my LDS, smile. And they are always extremely helpful. I have had great service from ST and Divesport. Online shops are LDS in their community too.

I have a wrist mount wireless AI, love it. My wife loves her wireless AI also. I like the fact that I just need to look at my wrist to find all info.