LDS: Point of Pain

[KenMusick]

I have been diving for awhile and decided to get my own equipment. I did not go through a lds to get my aow because my signifigant other's boss is a very and I mean very advanced instructor. One of the guys at a local lds got his dm instructor's instruction from this guy 6 years ago.

That said, I have no prior loyalty to any lds in the area. I did go to the one he recommended because I at least wanted fins mask etc.. and was looking at b/c and regs. My girlfriend bought her stuff with no one helping us, there were two people behind the counter, but no love, and I asked to order a mask from them since they did not have the particular model in stock. This was the last week in November.

I called back twice to check on the mask, and visited several other lds in my area. I found some that I like but they are at least an hour away from me. (traffic) finally after I told the lds that I was leaving on a trip the end of this month did the mask magically appear a day ago. I did buy it, but will not be returning there for anything but fills due to its proximity.

I did want to buy my reg b/c computer setup from the other lds, but they have almost nothing instock and every item is more than $200 more than I could get it from a reputable dealer online, warranty and everything. They really didn't help me any either.

So my decision is that if the lds can't be at least competitive on pricing, and don't have a large selection on hand for me to try, then why buy??

There are more than a few excellent dive clubs in my area that wold help me out more than any local dive shop could. Business sucks, and I don't feel bad buying from an authorized dealer online, because my lds doesn't do a damn thing anyways. Hell I could buy a compressor for less than I would have been scalped for at the lds.
http://www.scuba.com/shop/product.asp?category=155
( maybe not but if I buy enough I will, and if you need your fills so bad, have some buddies chip in on a compressor and learn to use the damn thing, maybe even take a gas blending class or two.

The lds needs to evolve to survive, and it's stuck in the pelagic.

 

[pilot fish]

I am biting my tongue!

Yeah, I think I'll do the same.

 

[matt_unique]

A business will succeed with what they are good at (relative to the competition) and fail at what they are not good at. If a shop over charges for equipment - they are going to sell less equipment. LDS loyalty and quality service will minimize the impact, or at least the pace of the impact but it will not prevent it. The online store will sell more equipment than the overcharging LDS. Most consumers don't appreciate or recognize (or in some cases care) about the impact to a local store if they can get a better deal online. Some people mentioned warranty problems - the manufacturers know what is happening as well. If they hesitate to cover a warranty, that will change if they want to continue to sell their product.

The online business will never replace the LDS in terms of training, air, and service. I bet the business models are changing though with the intrusion of the online equipment options. Have a small brick and mortar shop for the face to face essentials - repair, service, training and utilize JIT inventory control/costs for equipment. Use detailed online catalogs, etc. From what I have read it sounds like the owners of Scuba Toys are doing this. I don't know for sure just an impression from a few threads.

I have personally bought all my equipment from local shops. I check prices online to make sure I am not paying for a huge markup.

--Matt

 

[KenMusick]

I didn't mean to bash the lds, however I made it clear that I was extremely interested in ongoing education, lake wreck diving etc... and that I needed a complete setup, and asked their opinions and explained my relative unfamiliarity with some of the equipment, but I did not receive much help. But when I went to our world underwater I learned more than I could process just by talking to several of the club reps there, who gave very good information for the type of diving I would like to do. I think a lds is essential to the sport especially for introducing new divers to the sport, however they cannot continue to be hamstrung by the manufacturers, I'm thinking aqualung in general, or they will suffer. An apeks atx200 setup was nearing 700 and a 50, which I think is all I need was well over 500. I just can't afford to give anyone that kind of money, especailly with the lack of service I have described.

 

[pilot fish]

A- the manufacturers know what is happening as well. If they hesitate to cover a warranty, that will change if they want to continue to sell their product.

I disagree that the mfg will change to benefit unauthorized online dealers, such as Leisure Pro. I think it's more that they might start to authorize certain olnine sellers that are part of the diving community and will help get their products to a wider audience

The online business will never replace the LDS in terms of training, air, and service. I bet the business models are changing though with the intrusion of the online equipment options. --Matt

That's true. The Local Dive Shops are the life's blood of the sport. Online merchants of dive gear have no soul for the sport. It's like buying your car from a bakery

 

[oversea]

On the light subject, my LDS showed me a light (Iactually found it on the mfg site beforehand) and said it retails for 599 but I'm going to sell it for 499 and made it like it was a great deal. Then wandering the net, an approved dealer (not LP) for the item has it for 399. Wheres the deal? LDS 499.99 + 43.75 tax= 543.74.......online 399.99 the shipping at best 25.00=424.99. This is why people shop online, not for a couple of dollars but when it hits 100, not its a rip off

 

[oversea]

I disagree that the mfg will change to benefit unauthorized online dealers, such as Leisure Pro. I think it's more that they might start to authorize certain olnine sellers that are part of the diving community and will help get their products to a wider audience



That's true. The Local Dive Shops are the life's blood of the sport. Online merchants of dive gear have no soul for the sport. It's like buying your car from a bakery

Just keep in mind, many online retailers are dive shops. There are some such as leisure pro who are not but still supporting the LDS is not so valid IMO.

 

[jbisjim]

I don't need to be convinced ... nor convince anybody else. I'll usually buy from my LDS. They might charge me more than Leisurepro on some items, but they make it up in services, free air fills, and discounts on other items.

In general, the good shops will do what they can to retain your business in a very competitive environment. Truth to tell, I don't know any shop owner who gets rich by overcharging their customers ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Here too well said

 

[RIDIVER501]

Just keep in mind, many online retailers are dive shops. There are some such as leisure pro who are not but still supporting the LDS is not so valid IMO.

I partially agree OS. I agree that you shouldn't just support any old LDS. If an LDS is repeatedly ripping you off, not doing right by you in other service areas or both, then by all means take your business elsewhere.

I disagrees that LDSs in general should not be supported. Find one worthy of your business and support it. Support a reputable LDS that also deals on online and is an authorized dealer of the items they offer.

You get what you pay for. There are lots of good reputable LDSs that are worthy of being supported if you give them the chance.

In other threads on here I have heard the mantras of, I don't need no stinking warranty, It's not worth the extra money that I can save buying it online...

Well it is funny because those people who have come to our shop with warranty work were all crying a different tune when my shop told them that their gear wasn't under warranty, ie bought online by an unauthorized dealer, and that we'd fix it but here are our rates. I think some of the people who buy online think that we in the LDS trenches won't check to ensure the warranty is still active and/or valid.

My shop does.

Funny thing too is the same people who come in to get this work done are always people we have never seen before. They waltz in hand us their gear and basically say it's under warranty. fix it. A recent young lady who tried that came back three times the first time we told her we'd need to see the warranty paper work. The second time she told us she bought it online and insisted it was still under warranty. Sorry...
the third time she came in with an e.mail print out from. you guessed it, our friends at LP, which said "take to any LDS they are required to service it." This after I have seen e.mails from them saying if it doesn't come with a Mfg warranty we will warranty it.

Another thing that irritates regular LDSs is those of you who use them as an online fitting room. You can't try it on to get the right size at good ole LP so you saunter on in to your LDS, waste their time trying the item on, don't even ask if they can do better then the list price and then go an buy it online. How fair is that? Would you like it if folks came into your business to sample your wares then went behind your back and bought it elsewhere without even an courtesy "can we make a deal"?

And before the flamers get too spooled up I am not saying not to buy online and I am not saying to blindly support your LDSs.
I am saying if you buy online use reputable, authorized online dealers.
If you support your LDSs support one you trust and whom you feel is supporting you.
It is a two way street and the good LDSs know and understand that.

 

[KenMusick]

all of my equipment was purchased from an authorized retailer with warranties. I do not shop leisurepro because they are not a member of the diving community.