LDS Bashers

[lamont]

The problem I see with this whole thread is it's perpetuating the same ole "us versus them" thing. You have many on this board that have an "all dive shops are evil" mentality and do all their purchases from Larry or whatever internet site they want. They enjoy inciting those that still do business "the old fashioned way" by bashing them. What good is that?

Is their anyone that is actually doing that on this thread?

Honestly I see the bashing entirely coming from the "internet sales are evil" crowd.

I'm definitely not bashing. I'm just explaining Economics 101. In real life, my credit card has gotten significant amounts of abuse at my LDS and I actually do tend to buy stuff from them in order to support them. They do, however, offer value-add, and I'm willing to be charged a little more to keep them around.

What I don't do is get on the net and whine about basic economics facts. I simply vote with my credit card.

 

[cummings66]

Am I the only one that doesn't like asking for discounts? I just don't usually shop that way. When I shopped for a new car, I did it online. If someone

You should ask. I work in a retail store, although I am in the service field because I fix what breaks with electronics. I know the markup on products, I also know the markup is done in anticipation that a customer will ask for a better price. To haggle is expected and if you don't then you lose out. You would be surprised at how many people haggle on every little thing, it's routine.

Then there are people like you who don't care to haggle, I personally do not care to do it but I do. It depends on the starting price and what I see it priced at elsewhere.

My LDS for example prices things at MSRP and will cut you a break if you ask for it, but if you don't then he doesn't. To give you an example, I went to buy a FFM last week and we were talking and he said that he thought it would cost around $300 or so. We went to the back room and he got a catalog out and didn't see the price listed so he called and left a message. I did some checking and found out the suggested retail price was around $200 and the next day I dropped by and we got on the computer and I showed him the price I found which was what everybody was selling it for. He said I can beat that and he did.

I went to buy a BP/W and he didn't carry any, never does. I showed him the web site for it and he looked at it and said let me send him an email. He became a dealer for that just so I could get what I wanted and gave me a break in the process. I could not have done any better had I got it on the internet and now I have local support for it and he has a new line to carry.

I could give you other examples as well.

Now he does make money on the small ticket items, that's where the money's at. It's not the high end items that make money, it's those $5 and $10 items that bring in money.

In the end the LDS will find ways to compete, like mine has. He has a loyal customer base and he takes care of them, the more we buy the better he treats us and the more likely we are to get deals. I.e we'll come in and he's going to say, I just got this used thing here in and it's in great shape, I'll make you a deal and he does.

But it all starts with you're being willing to haggle. It's expected and a normal part of business. I've even haggled with lawyers, and they expect some of that as well.

 

[cummings66]

I have a suspicion that virtually no LDS owners know what it really costs to fill a tank.

My LDS knows, we talked about it a couple weeks ago. He gives free air for life to people who buy a tank from him, and he showed me what the filters cost, the maintenance schedule and such. Based on what he showed me, it's not cheap. I'd say air fills are a loss leader for many dive shops to get you in the door to buy other goods.

 

[Puffer Fish]

Lamont - nice job and you used the word "hyperbolic". Did you mean:

1. A plane curve that has two branches and is composed of the set of all points that such that the difference of their distances from the 2 fixed points is equal.

or

2. Exaggeration


By the way, you are posting to a guy who is in the very field he believes will collapse. Also, seems to have trouble keeping a job.

 

[lamont]

2. Exaggeration

that one.

 

[lakewinni]

Schooled enough in economics? Are you kidding me? If you were schooled enough in economics u'd realize that in market driven system the market doesn't care if the LDS owner makes a decent living or not. The market cares about efficeny (straight out of intro to econ). Efficeny isn't paying double the price of something when you can get it a lot cheaper online. Personally I dont use LDS at all except to fill and i have more fill stations than i need around me.

 

[Puffer Fish]

that one.

Thought so, just wanted to make sure.

You do know this is not a fair contest, don't you? Malls (retail shopping centers) were the great thing, until the internet started eating into their sales. They are facing the same issues as an LDS. I suspect our poster is not completely opened minded on this issue.

The concept of "if only we could keep things the way they were" is a major denial of the last several thousand years of human existence.

You are being nice though.

 

[partridge]

Another scenario would be Scubatoys outlets in every state. You can go in and try the gear, fit the gear, get your air fills, talk shop, and buy minor items. For the big items you would have to log on to their website and order direct. The sales from the common website would subsidise the "LDS".

Then the website would have to increase prices to pay for the LDS. Maybe a waste of time then.

 

[carldarl]

I personally find having to ask for a discount and haggle for items distasteful. I won't do it. I also find businesses who will "match" any competitors advertised prices distasteful. I will ALWAYS shop at the store who originally advertised the lesser price. That means if I don't ask for the discount and pay the marked price I AM being ripped off by the more expensive retailer. Why should he benefit from someone else's paying to attract my business.

I tried to shop at my LDS for items but he is an *** about it. He has a "private dive club" program for people who certify through him and buy their equipment from him. They receive a substantial discount for their purchases and services. But, he refuses to allow me to participate in his "club" because I purchased my and my wife's BC's elsewhere. (another LDS while on a vacation trip) He has openly told me he refuses to ever allow me to benefit from his club.

Then he turns around and says "I will match any internet pricing" while *****ing about having to do it. The last purchase I made from him (and I mean THE LAST) was a new computer. I brought in three different web sites and tried to discuss the purchase. I said I understood his position and hoped he understood mine. I asked to meet in the middle somewhere. Not as high as full MSRP and not as low as the internet price. He refused. He said it was one way or the other. Either FULL LIST PRICE or full internet discount price. He then reminded me I would never get the "club pricing" which is what I was asking for.

I then said fine. Give me the internet pricing ($280 less then MSRP) and watched as he wadded up and threw my receipt in the trash. (As I said, it was my last purchase from him.) It is unfortunate since I like the owner and would continue to buy from him if his manager weren't around. I paid to certify five people with this shop. I have spent several thousand dollars with him at full price but now refuse to spend another dime. I like gadgets, toys, whatever you want to call them. Its his loss, not mine.

ATTITUDE! I will pay more to support his competitor in town and have asked another "distant" LDS to open a location here. I paid for four AOW certs and a liveaboard trip for four through the "distant" (350 miles) LDS just to avoid my LDS. I work hard for my disposable income and it will be spent where I feel it is appreciated. NOT at the LDS just to support his lousy attitude and angry approach at business.

I have over 25 years in business management, have built and sold two very successful businesses, and am very aware of the economics of running a successful enterprise. One of the very first and foremost requirements to be successful is the ability to alter or modify your business model based on the ever changing commercial atmosphere. Those who refuse to change will die. Its just that simple.

As for my LDS? I refuse to support his poor attitude and closed-minded way of business. I WILL support his local competitor where possible and will continue to purchase on-line. If his business fails, I will feel sorry for the owner. But, the owner is the one person who could change his practices and chooses not to. So, ultimately he will be his own demise.

 

[Puffer Fish]

Another scenario would be Scubatoys outlets in every state. You can go in and try the gear, fit the gear, get your air fills, talk shop, and buy minor items. For the big items you would have to log on to their website and order direct. The sales from the common website would subsidise the "LDS".

Then the website would have to increase prices to pay for the LDS. Maybe a waste of time then.

Not as silly as you might think - that is exactly what REI did to get where they are today in sales. Started with mail order (before internet) and grew both businesses. Remember they can use economies of scale to off-set store front costs.