LDS Bashers

[PerroneFord]

No,

I haven't forgotten the percentage. That car dealer ship is paying 15-100 people a FULL TIME salary, benefits, they are paying infintely more in rent, insurance, and real operating costs. Dive shop has a compressor, auto shop has a compressor. Dive shop has a few full time guys probably without health care and some college kids. Dealer has a full staff of full time employees with mouths to feed at home. If a small auto dealership has 15 employees making $25k a year on average, each one is pulling $520 a week. Or $7812 a week for basic staffing. They need to sell three cars a week to simply pay labor costs.

I happen to live in a small town with two local shops. With those kinds of numbers, you'd think they would clamor for business. However, they have been smart. One has carved niche to service paintball (multiple uses for the compressor), and spearfishing. The other serves the small technical community with Helium, BP/W, HID lights, etc. Baby steps maybe, but they do a respectable job. The second shop also expanded into the canoe/kayak market as it is a growing market in this area. Again, good decision.

I know the owner of the LDS I frequent most. And you're right, he's not living like a king at all. He's a small business owner trying to pay his bills like the next guy. And I try to make a point of spending a few bucks whenever I visit if I can. A magaizine here, some webbing there, maybe I'll splurge sometimes and get a pelican case, or a bag, or a light. Most of their customers seem to be similar. We like the store, and we like the owner. I know there are others around the country who do not have an LDS that is interested in servicing the customer. And I think this is the crux of the LDS vs Online issue.

It's not all about price. If nothing else, these threads show that divers are more than willing to support a LDS that gives fair prices, and good service. That is just not too much to ask for. The diver who simply is looking for the cheapest prices all the time is not a "customer" so much as they are a leech. They do not help the LDS or anyone else for that matter. If LDS's want to remain viable, they must find a niche, provide some value to the customer, and avoid getting into pricing wars with each other, and the internet stores. It's not about the price, it's about the value.

But you have forgotten one thing......16% of a $20,000 car is $3200. 100% markup on a $300 reg is $300. A GM dealership sells at least a car a day, so without doing anything else, they rake in at least $96000 a month. Most LDSs can't match a car dealership in sales, but if they sell one reg a week, they make $1200 a month. Big difference, and even though it's 100% markup, it's still hard to pay all the bills off of it.

Do I think the system is flawed? YES. But the bottomline is, if you don't live in a metropolitan area where there is enough divers to support multiple dive shops, the LDS is your diving lifeblood, and the opposite is true also.

Take the time to get to know the people in your LDS. I think once you do, you'll see most aren't living like kings, and are struggling to make ends meet also.
Just my 2psi,
C-Dawg

 

[JonAustin]

I get the feeling that a lot of you are talking out of your @$$ about what a dealer's "cost" and "markup" are.

I think I have a pretty good idea. All it takes is a trip to ye olde Interweb to determine what a low-margin seller will give me on the same gear.

You've probably never worked in retail, much less managed a store and paid the bills.

Now who's talking out his "@ss?" You have NO IDEA what I've done or the experiences I've had. Actually, I have worked in low-volume, high-margin retail. The mark-ups are STAGGERING.

The high-volume-inventory-turning model of a Lowes or Wal-Mart isn't really applicable for most niche Scuba retailers.

Exactly! It's called "added value." If you provide support or products that people can't get anywhere else, you have nothing to worry about.

Most everyone is a potential Wal-Mart customer. A very small % of the population dives. I certainly wouldn't want specialty stores of any kind (be they ski, scuba, whatever) going the way of Wal-Mart.

Yes, and a relatively small percentage of the population backpacks, kayaks, canoes, shoots, rock climbs, or off-road bicycles. Ever been to REI or Academy? And, to address your other point, have you ever been ignored by the punk son of the dive shop owner, who just finished his own OW class?

Like waterdawg mentioned earlier, I don't care if you shop online. Just don't waste an hour of my time (often to the detriment of other customers) getting opinions and fitted into gear and then turn around and buy it online.

Because, I'm sure YOU'VE never gone to an electronics, music, or bookstore, checked out a product, left, and bought it online. It's called "a cost of having a storefront business." Don't like it? Open an online store! Or... provide an atmosphere where people WANT to pay more because of the service they receive! Brick and mortar stores are no longer the sole gatekeepers of scuba (or most any other) products. Adjust or die.

 

[Sideband]

I get the feeling that a lot of you are talking out of your about what a dealer's "cost" and "markup" are. You've probably never worked in retail, much less managed a store and paid the bills. You most certainly haven't tried to make a living selling a niche market item at the 15% markup you think would be "acceptable".

So selling an $8 snorkel for $49 is ok? (yes, those are actual retail and selling prices for a dry snorkel at a LDS.)

Joe

 

[WaterDawg]

I don't get coffee at the shops because it's not offered.

At the shop I work at good customers get soda and some have gotten beer, no coffee.

 

[JeffG]

At the shop I work at good customers get soda and some have gotten beer, no coffee.

Thats a store I would patronize.

 

[abitton]

At the shop I work at good customers get soda and some have gotten beer, no coffee.

BEER?????????

Where's that shop??? When I'm in Fla, I'll be sure to drop in!!



Alex

 

[rockjock3]

But who'd you sue when you felt off the next day??? Mikey the Sipper from the club? How would that work with Americans?

First, if you would sue when you felt off the next day because you automatically assumed it was bad air, then go do it, you are way to educated and mature for any of us. Secondly, you had a club buy a compressor then you would probably, as most clubs do, have an person that is qualified to take the air samples and send them in to ensure you have good air at the required intervals. Thirdly everybody would be trained, as it is in many clubs, to do their own fills so that you and only you are responsible for your tanks.

 

[PerroneFord]

A couple of points here.

I have never worked niche market retail, but have owned 2 businesses in a services only industry where no true tangible goods changed hands. You think selling dive gear is hard. Try selling services, especially intellectual services.

I don't know where anyone said a 15% markup was reasonable or expected. I'd be happy to find a shop that sold for 50-75% markup consistently and had the products in stock I wanted to buy.

Your points about diving being a small, low-volume venture are well taken. But that highlights a problem. Why, if this is such a low volume business, do well meaning divers think they can order in a few thousands dollars worth of product, hang a shingle, and think they are a dive shop? In many areas, there are just too many shops. Many run by people who know nothing about running a business, and then we are expected to lament their demise. If some joker sets up a resturant, serves average food, has poor customer service, and charges more than the competition, we don't wonder why they went out of business. We wonder why they GOT into business to begin with.

I must agree with you about the whole touch-feel-buy online thing. It has to be infuriating as retailer. Whenever I buy new goods online (which is rare) I go to my LDS, tell them what I am looking for, inform them of the price online, and give them a chance to compete. If that price is "reasonable", I will buy locally. What is reasonable is up for interpretation, but I don't want to be taken and I don't want the shop guy to feel like he's been cheated either.

I get the feeling that a lot of you are talking out of your about what a dealer's "cost" and "markup" are. You've probably never worked in retail, much less managed a store and paid the bills. You most certainly haven't tried to make a living selling a niche market item at the 15% markup you think would be "acceptable". The high-volume-inventory-turning model of a Lowes or Wal-Mart isn't really applicable for most niche Scuba retailers. Most everyone is a potential Wal-Mart customer. A very small % of the population dives.

Like waterdawg mentioned earlier, I don't care if you shop online. Just don't waste an hour of my time (often to the detriment of other customers) getting opinions and fitted into gear and then turn around and buy it online.

 

[Lisa0825]

At the shop I work at good customers get soda and some have gotten beer, no coffee.

That could be good for business! In Cozumel, some of the stores give out free tequila shots. I imagine many an impulse purchase has been made after getting loosened up with some Patron first!

 

[rockjock3]

....Brick and mortar stores are no longer the sole gatekeepers of scuba (or most any other) products. Adjust or die.

:monkeydan :lightingz

I like it, I like it.