LDS Bashers

[dbg40]

So let me get this straight..... I have to spend MY money where it buys less... When you need a new house built, or an addition to your existing house, call me and I will tell you what you will pay ME for the work. And don't expect any break, If you say anything about the cost, I hope you know that you are killing me, and that I have no hope of survival. Of course,, I could just get in line with the times, and figure out a better way to do buisness that will increase profits, provide a better experience for clients, and save them money. But why do that? I'll just whine about how others are the blame for my shortcomings. Look around, lots of shops are making money, selling on the internet, have loyal customers, and moved into a completely new biusness structure. I bet you don't dive with 20 year old gear, but you back 20 year old buisness practice. If that is the way shop owners want to continue on, thats their option, but its my option to place MY hard earned dollar where it gets ME the most value. I would never presume to bash you for your spending habbits, so why would you do so to others?

 

[PerroneFord]

I am too green to know better (and obviosuly not doing a search and researching right now) but what actually is the great rub that keeps shops taking on these companies who 'handcuff' them? And then whining about it to customers...

Now there must be something mutual - definately. Can't be just 'tradition' and 'good products'. If there was true resent and a group decision to drop these companies because they impose these rules it would have already happened. Or are these deals for 10 yrs at a time? It hasn't happened, so there must be some respect and/or something else???

The BIG money in these instances is repeat business and repair. So you drop the line, and you are no longer an authorized REPAIR facility. Now the guy who bought a regulator from you 6 months ago, has to go elsewhere to get it serviced. When you force him to go elsewhere to get it serviced, where do you think he is going to get his NEXT regulator, or mask, or BC from? You, the person who sent him packing? Or the next shop that welcomed his business.

The companies know this, and it's why they charge $10k or more to have you pick up their line. The whole thing is backwards. In other retailing, companies are going to retailers trying to get their product into these outlets. In the dive industry, the companies are CHARGING the retailer to carry their line. It's monopoly practices, and it should be outlawed. BUT, this won't change until customers vote with their dollars. We know the LDS are being bent over by these companies, and yet we still buy their stuff and support what they do. I can GUARANTEE you if ALL of us refused to buy SP, AL, or other vendor's products who did this to the LDS's we like, they'd change their tune. The LDS could take off the cuffs, and sell other quality products at fair prices without worrying about how to recoup that $10k to SP/AL every year.

 

[Chad Carney]

Wow, I wish everyone would dive!

Then all the people that make dive gear, sell it, repair it, fill it, and teach & take customers diving, could make a fair living on slim margins, just like all the mass merchants.

But that sure ain't going to happen, is it?

Chad

 

[mnj1233]

No, you are going to have to elaborate here for me. Are you saying that the likes of Toyota, Honda, Lowes, etc., are just "putting out products"? Last I checked they were doing EVERYTHING. And I have YET to see a car manufacturer refuse to service something their company made just because the customer bought it from a non-branded dealer. Why would they throw the repair dollar out the window because they didn't get the sales dollar? Anyone stupid enough to do that SHOULD go out of business. This is my argument againt this whole SP crap. SP made the product. It sold it to a dealer or wholesaler for what it felt was a fair price. WHO CARES what that wholesaler or retail then sells it for. If they want to GIVE them away, SP has it's money already. As for not giving a warranty, you BUILT it, SOLD it for a fair price. If you won't offer a warranty, it smells like fraud in my book.

The dealer margin at GM, used to be 16% if they sold at MSRP. If a global giant like GM could make marginal products, and give dealers 16% of the pie, and have dealers not only survive but thrive, then something is GROSSLY wrong in the dive industry if retaliers cannot survive with the 50-100% profits they are currently getting.

Do you really believe that LDS's are making 50-100% profit??? You cannot discount the cost of running the business. You may choose to ignore it, but it is a fact that business owners have expenses which come out of their so-called profits. Im going to support the LDS. Happy they are here to fill my tanks!!!!!

 

[mnj1233]

So let me get this straight..... I have to spend MY money where it buys less... When you need a new house built, or an addition to your existing house, call me and I will tell you what you will pay ME for the work. And don't expect any break, If you say anything about the cost, I hope you know that you are killing me, and that I have no hope of survival. Of course,, I could just get in line with the times, and figure out a better way to do buisness that will increase profits, provide a better experience for clients, and save them money. But why do that? I'll just whine about how others are the blame for my shortcomings. Look around, lots of shops are making money, selling on the internet, have loyal customers, and moved into a completely new biusness structure. I bet you don't dive with 20 year old gear, but you back 20 year old buisness practice. If that is the way shop owners want to continue on, thats their option, but its my option to place MY hard earned dollar where it gets ME the most value. I would never presume to bash you for your spending habbits, so why would you do so to others?

No-one is bashing you. Your choice is truly your choice. Just think we should all consider outsourcing (sp) for what it is. If the trend continues LDS's are not the only businesses that will disappear. Hope its not your job. Did you know that fast food orders at the drive-thrus are now being taken over seas at some locations!!!!! Un believable.

 

[redacted]

I am too green to know better (and obviosuly not doing a search and researching right now) but what actually is the great rub that keeps shops taking on these companies who 'handcuff' them? And then whining about it to customers...

Fact is some LDSs that sell gear from Mfgrs like Scubapro will put on a very apologetic demeanor when you ask if they can't come down a bit on that full Scubapro setup that you have selected and tell you that the manufacturer prohibits them from selling at less than the quoted price so ther hands are tied. But all too often, they don't just accept those restrictions but actually seek and demand them and the protection they think they are getting. Thankfully, there are so many other choices for high quality gear that such restrictions can be avoided if the customer is educated enough to know what os going on.

 

[tiburon72157]

How about I don't buy equipment from my LDS because the owner is a freak and an *******, and his assistant is regretably full of sales **** most of the time now. And instead of dropping or matching prices to keep folks coming in the front door, they choose to raise their prices higher than anyone else in the area. Why should I condone such business practices and deal with a bad attitude by spending my money in such a place? That's just plain foolish, something I'm not. My LDS does not seem to appreciate me as a customer. There are numerous others that have frequented this LDS in the past, and feel the same way. I can get air fills in a number of different places and small discounts at the chain sports outlet if I really need something quickly. Otherwise I get my gear online at a substantial savings. These savings add up over time, and allow me to purchase additional gear and work more local boat trips into my budget. Many of the online retailers I get my gear from, are an LDS somewhere. And they are happy to have my business, and tell me so. So, in a way I am supporting A LDS. Just not mine. I patronize the LDS shop ONLY to get my existing gear serviced quickly. And until I'm appreciated BY MY LDS, and given competitive pricing, I will continue to shop where I please.

 

[PerroneFord]

Do you really believe that LDS's are making 50-100% profit??? You cannot discount the cost of running the business. You may choose to ignore it, but it is a fact that business owners have expenses which come out of their so-called profits. Im going to support the LDS. Happy they are here to fill my tanks!!!!!

ALL brick and mortar shops face these same costs. So I did not factor them into my example.

 

[TSandM]

I've said it before -- we have an excellent LDS. And it isn't just my perception -- they were honored by DEMA this year as one of the top 15 dive shops in the country. It's a friendly place and customer service is superb. Yes, they sell things. It's how they survive. And no, they can't or won't always match the prices available elsewhere. But my husband and I have made a decision that, if the LDS can come within 10 to 20 percent of the price elsewhere, we will buy at the LDS. Why? Because we want to support the business, which provides superb equipment servicing, stands behind the things it sells to sometimes an almost absurd degree, and has created an community of good people who share a love of diving.

Sometimes money is the critical aspect of a purchase. But it is always good to look at the other factors.

 

[piikki]

Fact is some LDSs that sell gear from Mfgrs like Scubapro will put on a very apologetic demeanor when you ask if they can't come down a bit on that full Scubapro setup that you have selected and tell you that the manufacturer prohibits them from selling at less than the quoted price so ther hands are tied. But all too often, they don't just accept those restrictions but actually seek and demand them and the protection they think they are getting. Thankfully, there are so many other choices for high quality gear that such restrictions can be avoided if the customer is educated enough to know what os going on.

In the beginning of the summer I though that the shops were hiding behind this. That it is way easier to say 'someone else' isn't letting me keep my money than saying "I wont give you the discount". I bet some shops love this distracting NO.

I hate bargaining, I never liked shopping in countries where you need to start at something both know is ridiculous to end up at the real price either. I'd like the prices to be right and same for everyone - not better for the experienced shoppers or great whiners. The funny thing is that now even internet shops have gone this way and everything is as unsure again. Always have to start the small talk about pricing that both parties find akward... and which in LDS leads to time warp howling.