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A dive shop is good for one thing... Air fills... and they're not even that important for that. Face it... most people do their diving in foreign countries while on vacation. hardcore local divers, techies etc... sometimes have their own compressors.. and many local quarries and dive boats offer air fills... at least they do where I'm from.

If a person is travel savvy... they quickly figure out that booking trips themselves is much cheaper then the dive shop price. For years I was duped into believing the "group" rate the shop got was better than I could do myself... NOT! Since I started booking myself, I save on average $300+ per person per trip... that's $600 and up for my wife and I.

Another option is a good dive club... one that takes any special group rate, free spot and commission and divides it between all the members traveling. Our dive club does this and typically saves $500+ per traveling member. As an example... our recent trip to Roatan was advertised by a local shop for $1795 pp. We booked the exact same itenerary and took 19 divers... at an amazing $1200 pp. That showed us that the LDS was ripping people for an amazing $595 pp or for 19 people ($11305!) WOW!

I'll agree that LDS's are convenient for routine maintenance... it's nice to go there and get my reg back in a couple of days... I don't mind paying the price for that.

Education and training are the LDS's forte'. More focus on offering quality training and expanding offerings would go a long way to help LDS's.

Retail sales are important to them... but most are losing out because they refuse to change and often have very bad attitudes about the internet. A proper attitude would be more in line with starting their own internet sales or going with the bad attitude in a nice way. In other words... charge more for repairs for items bought on the internet... charge more for air from customers that haven't bought gear from them. Make their shops more like private clubs... to come in you must buy a membership... and once you're a member, then you get access to better pricing. If people want airfills bad enough or need a quick piece of gear or need regulator service... they'll have to become a member. Costco does it. Sams Club does it. Why not the dive industry?

The industry must come up with a way to bring in more money without offering anything new. You see, diving is for all intents and purposes a closed sport. Very few people get certified... and very few of those that do actually continue to dive. The last stat I saw said the average person who gets into diving only dives for 4 years. With that kind of turnover and such a small percent of the population diving to begin with... it's already like a small club... so make it a members only... charge a fee... and may the best shops stay afloat with nothing more than membership dues... Got 500 customers at $75 a year dues... you just made $37,500 and it's all FREE MONEY.
 
pasley:
So now the question: Do you think the 100% is pure profit? What would you consider a reasonable mark-up to cover expenses and a reasonable return on investment (profit)?

Of course I don't think that 100% is pure profit. As to what is "reasonable" I cannot answer that. Far too much of that depends on the shop, its staffing, location, etc.

When I see a guy running a dive shop out of his garage, with maybe $5k of stuff on the wall, and has no employees, I expect his overhead to be quite low. And I expect prices to reflect that.

If I step into a shop that is on the beach, they have 2 45ft dive boats, $3M in inventory, a full time manager, 10 full time enployees, employ 4 DMs, have a storefront webpage, offer classes from OW to Tech Trimix, and serve me coffee and cakes while I wait, I have a very different expectation of what I am about to pay for a product.

So here is the thing. Assume a product costs any authorized dealer $100. MSRP for that item is $250. I go online and find 3 authorized dealers selling it for $175 and two unauthorized dealers selling it for $139. I walk into the LDS and he wants $249.99. I ask if he could do any better, and he says he can sacrifice it for $225. When I say I can get it on the internet for $50 less from another authorized dealer, am I being a poor customer? Am I being unfair?

This is a scenario that is repeated over and over again. No one wants to see their LDS go under if they are a decent shop. But at the same time, no one wants to pay 50% more than they would online at another authorized shop. Those people selling online have overhead as well. Maybe not as much, but it's still there.

To make it personal, I wanted to buy a product from my LDS. The product was purchased at a certain price. It was early fall and a new pricing scheme had come out for this product for 2006. I found the item online from a brick and mortar store that had a web presence for $485, which was FULL MSRP. My LDS wanted $555 for the exact same item. After looking around, I discovered that the new 2006 MSRP price for that item as $555. So, my LDS was going to charge me the 2006 price even though THEY paid the 2005 price for the item from the vendor. Is this fair? I called the shop that was going to offer me the $485 price and asked why they were charging less. The response was that the new pricing was for 2006, and he wasn't going to charge customers that price when he didn't have to pay the higher cost himself. I ordered it the next day.

People simply do NOT have sympathy for dive shops who take profits unfairly. We all know they want to make money. That's fine. But there is a limit to how much customers want to be bent over.
 
Xanthro:
Absolutely!!

Really, over time more is spent on 1 and 3 than retail sales. While the profit margins might not be as high, it's a steady flow of cash.

I book boat trips all the time, I'll be travelling to Borneo on a dive trip next year. I take classes as well.

A successful trip means I want to go back and join that group again. That's more money for the LDS.

A successful retail sale means I don't have to buy that kind of item again!!

Agreed. I'm going to spend more on education and training in the long term than buying gear. How many BCDs/Regs/Tanks can I buy (yes I know that there are probably people who change these like they do their hair colour) as I hope my gear will last me several years. More money will be spent on dive trips/club/maintenance/various accessories, you name it. The majority of I will pick up at the LDS, or some variation of. My primary gear I will try and get the best price before I buy, that only makes sense.

And yes I know, the societies are money-grubbing parasites trying to scam the poor diver into taking a bunch of certifications that you don't really need. And I should be McGyvering my gear using a paper clip and crazy glue! I'm new at this, and I have a good rapor with my LDS. They know I bout my BCD/reg/octo/computer online, and don't have an issue with that, at least they haven't said so to me. They have been friendly and helpfull all through the process, and I will continue to use them until something changes my mind.
 
Doc Intrepid:
Very few divers, when asked "why do you love to dive?", answer "Well...I just love to buy and own the gear". It isn't about the gear, for most divers.

It's about what you do with the gear.

Thats the part of diving where the internet can't compete. Shop owners need to think about that.
Doc I think a primary reason our shop has prospered the past couple of years is because of our travel program. We get a couple of divers interested in a location, well like all good dive sluts we'll set up a trip there. One guy came in and said he wanted to go to Anthonys Keys during spring break next year. I had 14 signed up with deposits that same day and today we have 24 paid spots heading there.

Makem happy.

Another reason is a nice saline pool that divers who purchase gear here get to play in for free.
 
PerroneFord:
As to what is "reasonable" I cannot answer that.

I can. If the price is not as good or better than the next guy's then you better be offering something more to make up for the price difference or my business goes elsewhere. I don't care what your mark-up is. I care about what I'm going to get for what I'm going to spend. While I don't wish you ill, I care about my bank account, not yours. 200% markup is not the problem. Prices that are higher, with little or no off-setting benefit to the customer are. And it is pretty hard to off-set 50% to 100% price differences with a cup of coffee and "expert" advise.
 
I don't know much about dive shops in the US. But in resort areas, it's hard to make a living at it. I think it's because as someone mentioned, it's a unique hobby, or sport, and many people privately invest in a small shop and run it because they love the life style and diving. They're willing to just survive. Profit? what's that? "I didn't lose last year and I bought a new boat". They survived another year and can stay in the tropical paradise. This causes the over supply. I'm no economist but.....
 
PerroneFord:
Of course I don't think that 100% is pure profit. As to what is "reasonable" I cannot answer that. Far too much of that depends on the shop, its staffing, location, etc.

When I see a guy running a dive shop out of his garage, with maybe $5k of stuff on the wall, and has no employees, I expect his overhead to be quite low. And I expect prices to reflect that.

If I step into a shop that is on the beach, they have 2 45ft dive boats, $3M in inventory, a full time manager, 10 full time enployees, employ 4 DMs, have a storefront webpage, offer classes from OW to Tech Trimix, and serve me coffee and cakes while I wait, I have a very different expectation of what I am about to pay for a product.
....
People simply do NOT have sympathy for dive shops who take profits unfairly. We all know they want to make money. That's fine. But there is a limit to how much customers want to be bent over.
Well it appears we agree on the points you raised.
 
PerroneFord:
I've made comments on the LDS vs. Internet shop in the past so I'll keep this brief.

Sure! :D

Chad
 
I think the profit margin on gear is going to go down. The manufacturers just cannot allow the LDS to go out of business because of it. Along with this, any service being offered at a loss now will have to hold its own and contribute to the costs of the LDS. I guess this will include service and fills. If a dive shops boat cannot pay for itself then it will have to go. No more subsidizing. Each part of the LDS will be a cost center and have to pay for itself and make a profit.

Well, that describes just about every major company in the world. The business model of the LDS was flawed to begin with and now it has to correct itself. As with anything, the transition is very bumpy.
 

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