Lane's Cove Harrasment 6-17

[LobstaMan]

Yeah, but those lobsters didn't inhale.

LobstaMan

 

[STOGEY]

Key part of that arguement is that you and I don't pay taxes in G/R. The cops there are clearly responding to pressure put on them by the LOCAL taxpayers. And the only state rep who would have ANY sort of influence on the local G/R cops is the LOCAL state rep, who is under the same sort of local pressure.

I doubt that you would agree with the arguement from tourons, "Hey, if you don't like the traffic that I and all my touron friends bring to your town, you should move>' I bet you would suggest he shove his car somewhere uncomfortable.

Sometimes traffic may be a little annoying, but when I thnk of all the good loking women coming to my town its worth it. Besides its only for a couple of months and usually on the wekend so traffic isn't that bad.

 

[King Kong Matt]

I don't mean to be argumentative, but you don't need a warrant to open a cooler if you have probable cause to believe there is contraband in there.

You're going to have explain this one. Probable cause doesn't automatically cure a warrentless search subject to the 4th Amendment (absent a statute on point authorizing a search in that instance, or something similar...)

 

[LobstaMan]

Here's how it works...you need probable cause for a warrant or for a search--same standard of proof. Therefore, on most occasions regarding a vehicle and its contents, you can do a warrantless search of that vehicle given it's mobile nature, etc. It's called the motor vehicle or automobile exception to the warrant requirement. Now, there's a whole different set of requirements for a person's home given the 4th amendent(FED) and 14th article(I think)(MA) protection for houses.

So, if that cooler is in your car and the police have developed probable cause to believe that there's contraband/evidence in the vehicle, they can search it sans a warrant. However, if that same cooler is in your house under the same circumstances, the po-po need to write a ticket(aka obtain a warrant) for a search of your house and its contents.

Basically Matt, your statement is true. However, not a statute, but case law has established the above doctrine.

LobstaMan, Esquire

 

[ScubaSarus]

Actually the police can do what they want and its up to whoever is the arrestee to have to spend oodles of money on a lawyer to defend ones self from a search and prove there was no probable cause and a public defender just wont cut it.

 

[King Kong Matt]

Here's how it works...you need probable cause for a warrant or for a search--same standard of proof. Therefore, on most occasions regarding a vehicle and its contents, you can do a warrantless search of that vehicle given it's mobile nature, etc. It's called the motor vehicle or automobile exception to the warrant requirement. Now, there's a whole different set of requirements for a person's home given the 4th amendent(FED) and 14th article(I think)(MA) protection for houses.

So, if that cooler is in your car and the police have developed probable cause to believe that there's contraband/evidence in the vehicle, they can search it sans a warrant. However, if that same cooler is in your house under the same circumstances, the po-po need to write a ticket(aka obtain a warrant) for a search of your house and its contents.

Basically Matt, your statement is true. However, not a statute, but case law has established the above doctrine.

LobstaMan, Esquire

Ah...and now we understand one another. Maybe I missed the hypo, but I didn't see the cooler as being in the car. If the cooler was simply sitting on the street next to you as you are packing your gear, it would seem that the warrant is necessary.

You have state action and a reasonable expectation of privacy and thus a search subject to the 4th Am. and the MA Declaration of rights. The automobile exception probably wouldn't save you in that instance. I suppose, however, the police could "theoretically" use the probable cause to arrest you and then search the cooler calling it a search incident to a lawful arrest. Even then, they would probably need to demonstrate that it was within your "wingspan".

Just thinking out loud.

-Matt

 

[mfalco]

They can search you car if they are arresting you, etc.

They can't just start searching parked cars.

If they have reason to believe there is something illegal in the car they can do 1 of 2 things.

1) ask for consent to search. They even carry around forms for you to sign.
2) temporarrilly detain you while waiting to get a verbal warrant from a judge. (probable cause needed for that)

 

[ScubaNorth]

Here's how it works...you need probable cause for a warrant or for a search--same standard of proof. Therefore, on most occasions regarding a vehicle and its contents, you can do a warrantless search of that vehicle given it's mobile nature, etc. It's called the motor vehicle or automobile exception to the warrant requirement. Now, there's a whole different set of requirements for a person's home given the 4th amendent(FED) and 14th article(I think)(MA) protection for houses.

So, if that cooler is in your car and the police have developed probable cause to believe that there's contraband/evidence in the vehicle, they can search it sans a warrant. However, if that same cooler is in your house under the same circumstances, the po-po need to write a ticket(aka obtain a warrant) for a search of your house and its contents.

Basically Matt, your statement is true. However, not a statute, but case law has established the above doctrine.

LobstaMan, Esquire

The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer.
Henry Kissinger

 

[King Kong Matt]

They can search you car if they are arresting you, etc.

They can't just start searching parked cars.

If they have reason to believe there is something illegal in the car they can do 1 of 2 things.

1) ask for consent to search. They even carry around forms for you to sign.
2) temporarrilly detain you while waiting to get a verbal warrant from a judge. (probable cause needed for that)

They can search you car if they are arresting you, etc.

They can't just start searching parked cars.

If they have reason to believe there is something illegal in the car they can do 1 of 2 things.

1) ask for consent to search. They even carry around forms for you to sign.
2) temporarrilly detain you while waiting to get a verbal warrant from a judge. (probable cause needed for that)

Disclaimer: I'm just a law student and not a practicing criminal attorney so put me in my place if you know better.

As Lobstaman pointed out, they can start searching your car if they have probable cause to believe there is contraband within the confines of the car. You mention consent. That is one instance in which the fruits of a warrantless search will not face exclusion from evidence. But, there are others, and to the extent you seem to indicate that those are the only things the police can do, your statement seems incorrect (again, please see disclaimer).

Take a different example.

The police stop you for a broken taillight (which they are well within their rights to do). As they approach the vehicle, they sense (based on their experience as police officers) the odor of marijuana emanating from the automobile. They now have probable cause to believe that contraband is contained in the car and are within their rights to search the entirety of the car (even the trunk) regardless of whether they have a warrant and regardless of whether you give consent or not. This is the automobile exception.

At the point where the police have probable cause to believe there is contraband in the car, the nature of the contraband is really beside the point. Five people setting on the beach in Rockport tell a police officer that they saw me exiting from the water with a sack of lobsters and "none of them could possibly have been to spec". Each tells the cop that they saw me put the lobsters in a cooler in the trunk of my car. At this point, I'm pretty sure that the officer has probable cause to stop my vehicle (if it is not already stopped) and to search the car...

But hey, for the third time...see disclaimer.

If I'm wrong, tell me...I gotta take the bar soon.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

Just to clarify - In this instance The coolers were sitting alone on the rocks. The nice policeman asked me who's coolers they were. I said I didn't know. He asked if there were Lobsters in the coolers. I again said I didn't know. He opened the coolers to look inside.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it...Al