Kristina's memorial plaque discussion

[Blue Sparkle]

"There are many different bronze alloys but modern bronze is typically 88% copper and 12% tin."

"Bronze was especially suitable for use in boat and ship fittings prior to the wide employment of stainless steel owing to its combination of toughness and resistance to salt water corrosion. Bronze is still commonly used in ship propellers and submerged bearings."

Bronze - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Totally agreed Peter. And if you knew me from boating, you would know that I love bronze, and vastly prefer it to stainless steel. I'm a rabid bronze fan and often tout its wonders to the modern world that is infatuated with stainless (which I'm not so fond of in the boating realm)

But, although it is a wonderful underwater metal (and I have chosen it for my own boats' underwater/topside metal fittings), it will typically get growth on it unless painted with anti-fouling, at least on a boat in salt water. Maybe plaques are different - my experience is with vessels.

Edited to add: I happen to be chatting with some boaty friends and I'm asking their thoughts, which I will post here later.

Second edit: Okay, so I was chatting with some boat-related friends (two of whom were divers back in the old days) and we discussed the plaque materials. I was interested to get their opinions on copper, since I know it as an ingredient in anti-fouling paint and that it was used in "the old days" to sheath hulls, partially for those qualities.

So, one negative for copper is that a thinner piece of copper would likely "corrode" away in a relatively short time period (not days or weeks, but still... months or few years?); however they felt that one of 1/4" or more would likely last a long time. BUT, the copper would tend to be leached out, so the anti-fouling properties would not last as long (this makes sense, as it is leached out of bottom paint too, over time). I don't know what the time period would be.

Bronze (or as I like to call it, the King of Metals ), will foul, but will last a very long time. Longer than copper. And, since the fouling in northern California is not super bad (at least as I remember it in the Bay Area), it could probably be maintained by people cleaning it off from time to time.

Another idea that was floated was to apply clear epoxy to the plaque (this was bandied about while we were talking about copper). At 20' or deeper, I don't think UV would be an issue (epoxy is UV sensitive). I would be a little "meh" on that, myself, as I'm not really into a "plastic" or coated feel to a plaque (although I use epoxy for plenty of other things, so it's not that I'm anti-epoxy). Of course in this case my wishes aren't really applicable - I'm just mentioning what I'm thinking.

So, after thinking about it more, and discussing it with some buds, I probably would choose bronze, myself, even though it would foul to some extent. It will be more corrosion resistant than copper, and copper's anti-fouling properties would not last forever (I'm not sure how long they would last... maybe a few years?).

Topside, bronze will develop a green patina as it oxidizes (and this protects it to a certain extent - it's not a bad thing), but I'm not sure what it would do under water (because all of my underwater bronze has anti-fouling paint on it when it is in salt water, but then this is a higher fouling area). The verdigris wouldn't put me off as I think it's beautiful; I'm just mentioning it.

So, for someone who was just going to pipe in with a sentence or two a while back, I have rambled on. I hope you all don't mind. Also, although I have some experience with metals and salt water (boat related), I'm certainly no expert or metallurgist, and with the wide readership on this board, there are probably some of those here

 

[kathydee]

If family is cremating Kristina (just wondering), perhaps a little ash can be put aside and mixed into the concrete for the base of the plaque.

Ashes? Am I the only one here who would feel quite sad passing Kristina's memorial & ashes on every trip to the Metridium Fields? Wonder how the plaque would affect brand new OW students? Or those on their first Metridium night dive?

I got the impression fisheater meant somewhere nearer half-way between the end of the pipe and the metridium fields... kinda like a marker to let newer people know they are on the right track

I've been thinking about the memorial plaque at Lobos. It might be best to place Kristina's plaque somewhere she loved & that is easy for friends to visit, rather than a location where it is pretty much unavoidable.

Fobturbo, her regular BW partner had a few good suggestions. I think the Middle Reef location makes a bit more sense to me.

Within Breakwater, I think there are 2 good options, one is near Metridium (as Fisheater and others are suggesting), so she can serve as a guide to and back for everyone; the other is near middle reef area, near her "round thing" (http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/norcal/328851-id-needed-some-object-bw.html). We never could figure out what that object was....

 

[fisheater]

I think that ashes is a "no go."

A memorial plaque in a Marine Sanctuary is on shaky legal ground as it is. Best not to make it worse. There are very strict California statutes on the disposal/storage of human remains.


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[Jim Ernst]

Two plaques sounds even better. She had a LOT of friends and dive buddies.

Great Idea Dan, I agree 100%

 

[eelnoraa]

Lots of good ideas. Keep up updated. If contribution is needed, I am in.

 

[iztok]

Great Idea Dan, I agree 100%

It was me who suggested two ;P

 

[Brewski]

Ashes? Am I the only one here who would feel quite sad passing Kristina's memorial & ashes on every trip to the Metridium Fields? Wonder how the plaque would affect brand new OW students? Or those on their first Metridium night dive?

I don't think new divers seeing a memorial is a problem. If I came across a memorial while diving I'd think how wonderful it is that her friends thought so much as to honor her like this. In fact I'd hate to think that her memorial would be placed somewhere no one would see it and care for it.
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[g1138]

Ashes? Am I the only one here who would feel quite sad passing Kristina's memorial & ashes on every trip to the Metridium Fields? Wonder how the plaque would affect brand new OW students? Or those on their first Metridium night dive?



I've been thinking about the memorial plaque at Lobos. It might be best to place Kristina's plaque somewhere she loved & that is easy for friends to visit, rather than a location where it is pretty much unavoidable.

Fobturbo, her regular BW partner had a few good suggestions. I think the Middle Reef location makes a bit more sense to me.

I didn't know Kristina personally. We may have exchanged a few posts here and there. But I guess I'll step in and offer my opinion now. From my understanding I think the only students who go to the Metridium are those in an Adv class. I have yet to hear of any instructor taking their Basic students out that far.

I think it would be nice to have a midway "beacon" to the Metridium fields off the pipe. (I think someone mentioned that as a spot). From what I've read, Kristina seemed like one of the most friendliest and welcoming person you could meet. It would seem right if her memorial served as a welcoming message to those traveling to the Metridiums. I know in bad vis it can seem like the fields are miles away, same if it's your first time going out to the fields. I think the plaque there would be a nice touch.

Now if the story of why the plaques there got out then it may shake up a few students. But it could serve as a good talking point on safety. A lot of times the dangers of diving doesn't really hit home for a new diver. Last school quarter we had to rescue a diver at Monastery during our Basic skin dive. It served as a good talking point for our students and I think it really contributed to their safety awareness.

What I'm trying to say is I'm not trying to belittle Kristina or point blame, but just saying that accidents and incidents do happen and it's important to always be aware that this sport is extremely dangerous and extremely lucky.

 

[andrewy]

is titanium any better for salt water? we can chain it to the pipe. or to hole in the wall @ lobos.but i think pipe would be better, she liked BW and showing people around there.

 

[fobturbo]

My OW instructor took us out there on our second day, as our last dive. He only did this after making sure everyone was comfortable. It turned out to be an awesome dive since it was our only fun dive.

I didn't know Kristina personally. We may have exchanged a few posts here and there. But I guess I'll step in and offer my opinion now. From my understanding I think the only students who go to the Metridium are those in an Adv class. I have yet to hear of any instructor taking their Basic students out that far.

I think it would be nice to have a midway "beacon" to the Metridium fields off the pipe. (I think someone mentioned that as a spot). From what I've read, Kristina seemed like one of the most friendliest and welcoming person you could meet. It would seem right if her memorial served as a welcoming message to those traveling to the Metridiums. I know in bad vis it can seem like the fields are miles away, same if it's your first time going out to the fields. I think the plaque there would be a nice touch.

Now if the story of why the plaques there got out then it may shake up a few students. But it could serve as a good talking point on safety. A lot of times the dangers of diving doesn't really hit home for a new diver. Last school quarter we had to rescue a diver at Monastery during our Basic skin dive. It served as a good talking point for our students and I think it really contributed to their safety awareness.

What I'm trying to say is I'm not trying to belittle Kristina or point blame, but just saying that accidents and incidents do happen and it's important to always be aware that this sport is extremely dangerous and extremely lucky.